Austria-Hungary Cannon Cross (Austrian Army cross, 1813-1814)

[Owen]

As a newbie to this forum (and site), I just wanted to say hello and to share a medal bought very recently.... the Austrian Army Cross 1813-1814 (aka Cannon Cross).

I am trying to collect (as funds and time allow!) all the medals associated with the Peninsular Wars (and particularly Waterloo) having long had an interest in the subject area - it just seems a natural extension. I don't have any depth of knowledge with medal collecting and am very much 'learning as I go'....so any any information/advice you might have would be gratefully received.

Does anyone know where I might get a ribbon for this medal (I tried and failed with the main ribbon suppliers that come up in google searches)?

Anyway - I'm sure you will know more than me, but here's what I do know about the medal I have:

• Dates to the Hapsburg Monarchy 1814 - Emperor Francis I instituted the cross for the victory over Napoleon;
• 27mm diameter;
• Made of forged brass;
• It is lacking the green enamel on both faces;
• It has the official 'hallmark' stamped onto the top of the suspension loop - a double eagle in a diamond;
• Has a thin grooved suspension ring (I believe that there were 3 types of suspension ring - thick grooved, plain and thin grooved).

Edited July 16, 2010 by Monkey

[Tom Y]

Welcome aboard Here's hoping your stay will be a pleasant one.

Classy cross. Although it lacks the splendor of many other awards or the simple elegance of the Iron Cross It's one of my favorites. As far as I know it's the only Austrian award made "aus erorbetem Geschütz", i.e. captured cannon.

You've picked a tough area to collect. The awards aren't as easily found as those from later wars and almost 200 years' attrition has turned many ribbons to dust. Have you tried the OMSA ribbon bank?

[Owen]

Welcome aboard Here's hoping your stay will be a pleasant one.

Classy cross. Although it lacks the splendor of many other awards or the simple elegance of the Iron Cross It's one of my favorites. As far as I know it's the only Austrian award made "aus erorbetem Geschütz", i.e. captured cannon.

You've picked a tough area to collect. The awards aren't as easily found as those from later wars and almost 200 years' attrition has turned many ribbons to dust. Have you tried the OMSA ribbon bank?

Hi, many thanks for the warm welcome and for the helpful info...I agree...I like this cross too and would really like to see it with the right ribbon. I haven't tried the OMSA ribbon bank - just googled it and see you have to be a paid up member...I am UK based, but will have a look tomorrow when I am a little fresher (its 3.45 am here and I should be tucked up!). Thanks again, Owen

[trakkles]

Hello,

for example, my piece with original ribbon and good green paint.

I only know the the kind of suspension which by mine and yours, it is very dangerous to bend the suspension it will be easily break.

For the correctness, also the medal "denmark campaign" 1864 was made off "eroberte Geschütze", but there not on all pieces the inscription

on the edge.

Trakkles

Edited July 17, 2010 by trakkles

[Owen]

Hello,

for example, my piece with original ribbon and good green paint.

I only know the the kind of suspension which by mine and yours, it is very dangerous to bend the suspension it will be easily break.

For the correctness, also the medal "denmark campaign" 1864 was made off "eroberte Geschütze", but there not on all pieces the inscription

on the edge.

Trakkles

Wow! It is great to see the medal in the condition it should be and with the original ribbon...thank you for sharing the picture. I hear what you say about the suspension - it does seem fragile.

[Josef Rietveld]

Another piece.

The ribbon is old but seems to be not the original one. Aswell I'am not 100percent sure if the gilding wasn't renewed once.

regards

Josef

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

the Metallenes Armeekreuz (a.k.a. Kanonenkreuz; it also had an official italian name as "Croce Metallica d'Armata"), is a fascinating decoration, especially when we find an "adapted" piece or when we find a named one.

As a matter of interest, I would like to post the link to a topic from a couple of years ago http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=27784 regarding a prototype of this award.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

[Owen]

Hello,

the Metallenes Armeekreuz (a.k.a. Kanonenkreuz; it also had an official italian name as "Croce Metallica d'Armata"), is a fascinating decoration, especially when we find an "adapted" piece or when we find a named one.

As a matter of interest, I would like to post the link to a topic from a couple of years ago http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=27784 regarding a prototype of this award.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

Thanks Elmar, this is very interesting...

[chechaco1]

а вот с лентами и промежуточными кольцами беда-чьи-то" умелые руки " сломали и вытащили на 200 лет

[Elmar Lang]

Здравствуйте, Chechaco1,
Спасибо за ваш вклад в это обсуждение, и я прошу прощения за плохое использование русского языка!
Думаю, если бы вы могли писать по-английски, это было бы здорово для большинства читателей ...
(или пытаюсь использовать "Google TRanslate").
Ваши кресты действительно красивы, хотя кольца утеряны.
У кого-нибудь из них выгравировано имя на кайме?

 

(Hello Chechaco1,
Thanks for your contribution to this discussion, and I apologize for the poor use of the Russian language!
I think if you could write in English that would be great for most readers ...
(or trying to use google translate).
Your crosses are really beautiful, although the rings are lost.
Do any of them have a name engraved on the rim?)

[chechaco1]

Я вставляю текст на английском языке, но, по-видимому, встроенная настройка просмотра сайта позволяет конвертировать его обратно на русский язык перед отправкой. и я не могу перепроверить, потому что сайты автоматически переводятся.
нет, края чистые.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

to remain in theme, I would like to post a typical example of a "named" Metallenes Armeekreuz aka "Kanonenkreuz", this, named to the Feldmarschalleutnant (FML) Max Wimpffen.

 

Best wishes,

 

Enzo

 

 

[Christian1962]

34 minutes ago, Elmar Lang said:

Hello,

to remain in theme, I would like to post a typical example of a "named" Metallenes Armeekreuz aka "Kanonenkreuz", this, named to the Feldmarschalleutnant (FML) Max Wimpffen.

 

Best wishes,

 

Enzo

 

 

 

Zounds! That´s a really good one. Exeptional piece - my congratulations.

 

I just own a simply Lieutnant´s piece.

 

Regards

 

Christian

Edited May 31, 2021 by Christian1962

[Elmar Lang]

Any named Kanonenkreuz is a nice finding. The Wimpffen cross was just a piece of luck, happened years ago.

 

My further named crosses are to a "Feuerwerker", and to a "Lieutnant im Pionier-Corps" only.

 

All the best,

 

Enzo

[Elmar Lang]

Hello again,

 

I would like to add some further material to this discussion, posting the image of what is considered the original prototype of the Metallenes Armeekreuz, prepared by the Kammermedailleur J.W. Harnisch in 1813.

 

It is made of a bronze alloy with a high percentage of copper. This same piece, belonged to the von Heyden collection, described in his work "Ehrenzeichen (...) Deutschlands und Oesterreich-Ungarns", Frankfurt, H. Keller (Meiningen, Brückner & Renner), 1897,  page 239, n. 1009 and in the sale's catalogue of v. Heyden's collection, lot 860 (Adolf Cahn, Frankfurt, 19. October 1898); the cross became part of the Julius Collection, first catalogued for auction in 1932 by Otto Helbing, but the sale never took place until 1959 when, besides some loss due to the circumstances of war, it was again catalogued and sold by Gaettens, Heidelberg.

This prototype became part of the Fattovich collection: the late Professor and great collector, published it in the "Mitteilungen der Oesterreichischen Numismatischen Gesellschaft" in 1969 ("Das Metallene Armeekreuz von 1813").

In 1996, this piece became part of my own collection.

The Cross is larger than the usual Kanonenkreuz and the most notable difference is the motto "E CAPTIS TORMENT. BELLICIS MDCCCIII" (From captured enemy cannons 1813).

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Elmar Lang

[Christian1962]

Quite a very good peace too.?

 

I myself could purchase some parts of the Fattovich collection during the last years. Mostly collectors copies of rarest pieces. But their price increases very rapidly last year as you coul see last week at Rauch´s. That´s too much for copies.

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

[tifes]

Obviously I can´t top Enzo´s named piece and "Prototype" but my little contribution to the debate. One of the named pieces of „better people“…Reichsgraf  Johann Ernst Hoyos von Sprinzenstein. In 1814 a Lieutenant colonel and deputy commander of Infantry Regiment No. 49 (IR 49) “Baron von Kerpen”. Later very high Imperial Court official (Obersthof- und Oberstjägermeister), FML (1838), knight of Golden Fleece Order (1840) and at the of 70 the first commander of Viennese Militia (Nationalgarde) in revolution year 1848.      

[Elmar Lang]

A magnificent Kanonenkreuz, with an excellent engraving and an illustrious provenance!

 

Thank you for sharing the pictures of a piece from your collection.

 

All the best,

 

Enzo (E.L.)

[graham]

Beautiful pieces tifes and Enzo, thanks for sharing, very informative.

[chechaco1]

I came across another cannon cross, but also without an inscription and with a ring not related to my family

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

 

the cross is an original, awarded piece, where the green colour was lost during the years.

 

The suspension ring has been clearly replaced.

 

All the best,

 

Enzo (E.L.)