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Don here is the reverse image. Would Meisterzeichen be the winner of the event or do you think that this would be given to attendees of the event and not participants? Have a nice weekend. Robert

Hi Robert,

I've no idea......... I've never seen this badge before, or seen the phrase "Meisterzeichen" used in this context. More research is required (just when I thought that I was getting to grips with these shooting badges as well :blush: ).

It's very interesing that Danner was the maker & not one of the usual suspects seen on these Tirol badges (Klammer, Pichl or Poellath).

Thanks for posting it Robert.

Cheers

Don

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Hi Pete,

Sorry for my very late reply.

Yes the second one is indeed a tinnie, however the first is the Meister Class (gold with oakleaves) grade given out at the Bregenz Kreisschießen. As I'm sure you know by now, these were achievement badges & a minimum score had to be attained to qualify to receive one.

Thanks for showing it, I've known of the existence of this design but have never actually seen one. Very nice!

Thanks

Don

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  • 3 weeks later...

Do you feel Roberts Meisterzeichen badge may have been a day badge (tinnie) for the event?

--dj--Joe

I really do not know what to think of it Joe. Part of me says "yes a tinnie", but the word "Meisterzeichen" makes me wonder. It's construction would indicate a tinnie...... More research is needed I'm afraid.

Cheers

Don

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Mi,

a "Meisterzeichen" is not and never a day badge for an event.

It is a meritorious badge for specified requirements. You can find such badges on different levels, shooting club, town, district etc.

See for example a modern one (honoring for exceptional shooting achievements):

http://www.schuetzen...zirkes-schwaben

The badge from Kitzbühel is from a district association "Kreis-Schützen-Verband"

It could be an honorable badge for different town champions in the district.

It could be a badge for shooters in the district with excellent shooting results.

But it could not be a day badge.

Uwe

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Meister schießen, (master shoot).

As opposed to,

Meisterzeichen, (masters mark), (masters sign),(makers mark).

Perhaps this piece is in reference to the logo of the Ibex on the round target with swas. and the oakleaves and acorns.

:anmatcat: --dj--Joe

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Another point of interest is the name on the badge.

As Uwe points out, it is for a local shooting association "Kreis-Schützen-Verband Kitzbühel", however in October 1938 ALL shooting clubs, guilds & societies, as well as all culteral groups (music & dancing etc) were brought under the umbrella of the "Standschützenverband Tirol-Vorarlberg". So it must be from the very early period to name it as a verband in its own right....

Cheers

Don

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  • 3 months later...

Another fine piece Pete, & yes it belongs here.

A considerable number of these Lienz badges have turned up on the market in the last two years & I suspect that a "hoard" has been found in an old Schützen haus. I DO NOT believe that they are fakes, although I do suspect that they have been reconditioned, i.e. cleaned up & repainted etc, although I have no proof of this. They are magmetic & I do not think that the fakers would bother using ferrous metal. It is just too hard & needs very high temperatures to work with to get the sort of detail we are seeing here.

Here are my three, I still need the gold with oakleaves....

Cheers

Don

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Don, from your first post I see a 41 dated Wehrmanngewehr badge. Did that designation end in 1941? Seems I asked this question way back but your reply is lost in the fog of age.

--dj--Joe

​Hi Joe,

 

No, it simply became Wehrmann from 1942 onwards....

 

Don

Wehrmann.jpg

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Thanks Don. Guess I need a good reference book. 

I saw a bronze 1939 Landesschiessen marked A.G. & CO. Munchen. I don't see too many A. G. & CO.'s beside the 1940 Kleinkaliber - Meisterklasse badges. Was wondering if they only produced in the early years?

--dj--Joe

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A.G. & co pieces are only found as bronze, silver & gold 1939 & the Kleinkaliber 1940 badges.

A.G. & co marked badges are very controversial.  Many believe them to be fake, the main reason being that so far no one has been able to identify who exactly A.G. & co were (if they existed during the period).

However the badges are not cast copies or made with old dies as there are die differences between the Poelatth & the AG pieces.  Both Poellath & the AG pieces are magnetic & they also have the same measurements....

So if they are fake then someone went to great lengths to make them the same. 

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Aktiengesellschaft & Co.  I know, too simple. I have observed listings like this but why joint company co.? Corporation different than company?

Arbeitsgemeinschaft?

Just thinking --dj--Joe

Edited by --dj--Joe
More thinking.
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