Luftwaffe Luftwaffe Metal Breast Eagles

[shaneos3]

Hello All,

Here are a couple of Luftwaffe metal breast eagles- one unmarked aluminium and one 800 silver marked with Assman "A".

Any comments welcome,

Regards, Shaneos3

[shaneos3]

The Silver 800 "A" marked breast eagle seems to be consistent with the silver Luftwaffe eagles commonly found on luftwaffe EK1 & 2 award goblets.

[J Temple-West]

Hi Shaneos3

The aluminium Assmann looks like it has a good chance of being original...Could we see the reverse...I take it that it's has the "A DRGM" marking?

As for the '800 - A' marked example....I don't like it, and I have to say that I don't like the goblet either.

[joe campbell]

my concern rests not from vast experience with goblets,

but with the placement of the 800 stamp on the goblet...

added afterward???

i'd be a little p*ssed if i got that goblet marked on

the eagle rather than the base...

joe

[shaneos3]

Hi J Temple-West and Joe,

The goblet is only silver plated but the applied luftwaffe eagle and EK are definitely real silver.

In your experience with silver plated luftwaffe goblets, how are the bases usually marked? alpaka? EPNS? manufacturers stamp?

Shaneos3

[Bob Lyons]

Shane, have a look in the Luftwaffe Awards & Decorations page, and scroll down to: EHRENPOKAL DER LUFTWAFFE

You will see the markings on a very nice Luftwaffe Honour Goblet there.....

Best wishes

Bob<BR id=anonymous_element_9>

[Hauptmann]

I'm no expert... but I was in TR for a lot of years. Was also at John Angolia's home/collection several times as well as tons of museums, read tons of refs, etc., and have NEVER seen such goblets for award of the EK. I know at times, as with Richtofen such items may have been privately ordered but I've never seen one that was officially awarded by either the German gov't at the time or the Luftwaffe.

On top of that... I have also NEVER seen such a mark on the obverse of any piece such as that eagle. There were quality control organizations for both the NSDAP and the military forces that assured that all items were manufactured/produced in the proper way. In the early days there was alot of Kitsch (often inferior products) marketed with Hitler's image and symbols of the party by folks trying to make a quick buck based on the growing popularity of the nazi's. After the nazi's came to power they quickly put an end to such things. And in the case of this eagle, this is the symbol of one brance, ie, the Air Force of the nazi regime. There is simply now way that such an item would have passed inspection. If it did get out no self respecting member of the Luftwaffe would have displayed such an item. "If" it was indeed an original piece privately purchased for either a unit presentation, one from members of a unit to a respected colleague or even an individual awarding one's self a trophy to commemorate such an occasion, to have such a mark on the national symbol of the Luftwaffe would have been unacceptable. It would have been pointed out, assuming it got as far as the store shelf, and sent back to be melted down as a faulty item. Such marks tended to be, as stated, on the underside of the base, the reverse of awards, etc., and not on the front or other easily visible place.

Just my two pfennigs worth but I'm fairly sure others here familiar with the TR will concur.

Dan

Edited November 30, 2010 by Hauptman

[Bob Lyons]

I was trying to be 'diplomatic, but yes, I can cur with Dan !

Bob

[Hauptmann]

A couple of examples. A torch holder from the 1936 Olympics. All markings are under the top section:

An ashtray, also from those games:

[Hauptmann]

A slight exception... a DAF finial... not a silver mark but an RZM marking (ie: passed quality control):

But these would have also been up on flag poles and not seen as readily as an item that would be displayed on a desk or shelf such as with those "EK trophies".

Dan

[Hauptmann]

And please know I'm not trying to be harsh here... just instructional. I pray you don't have alot in these items. If you do I'm very sorry... but this is what we try to do here is educate others so they don't obtain such items unless it is purchased as a replica or fantasy item. And as with such items it's generally small details like this that trip them up and show what they truly are.

To be honest, if I saw that goblet for sale for say less then $40 or thereabouts and had the money burning a hole in my pocket it might be something I'd pick up to pop on a shelf for a display. But I'd know what it was, would make no bones about it and would use it to educate other collections. I do have copies in my collections and that's how I use them. It's neat, just like copies of WW1 or WW2 Steins, etc., but they are what they are... no more, no less and again as long as they are purchased with that in mind for a reasonable amount and not misrepresented then no problem... at least IMHOP. It's a shame such items are out there... because they are so misused, but they'll never go away as long as someone can make a buck with them. So best we can do is educate ourselves to try and prevent anyone from buying them under false pretenses and for a lot of money.

I think it's great you posted them, and that they can be used to educate others. That's always a good thing. Again I pray you don't have alot in them. But if you do, remember we've all been there, done that and lost money on copies, fantasy items, etc. It happens... but as with all mistakes you learn from them.

Dan

[Bob Lyons]

And please know I'm not trying to be harsh here... just instructional. I pray you don't have alot in these items. If you do I'm very sorry... but this is what we try to do here is educate others so they don't obtain such items unless it is purchased as a replica or fantasy item. And as with such items it's generally small details like this that trip them up and show what they truly are.

To be honest, if I saw that goblet for sale for say less then $40 or thereabouts and had the money burning a hole in my pocket it might be something I'd pick up to pop on a shelf for a display. But I'd know what it was, would make no bones about it and would use it to educate other collections. I do have copies in my collections and that's how I use them. It's neat, just like copies of WW1 or WW2 Steins, etc., but they are what they are... no more, no less and again as long as they are purchased with that in mind for a reasonable amount and not misrepresented then no problem... at least IMHOP. It's a shame such items are out there... because they are so misused, but they'll never go away as long as someone can make a buck with them. So best we can do is educate ourselves to try and prevent anyone from buying them under false pretenses and for a lot of money.

I think it's great you posted them, and that they can be used to educate others. That's always a good thing. Again I pray you don't have alot in them. But if you do, remember we've all been there, done that and lost money on copies, fantasy items, etc. It happens... but as with all mistakes you learn from them.

Dan

Spot on, by the way Dan, I meant to type 'Concur', finger fault local I'm afraid !!

Cheers

Bob

[Hauptmann]

Spot on, by the way Dan, I meant to type 'Concur', finger fault local I'm afraid !!

Cheers

Bob

Many thanks Bob! And no problem re: the concur. I'm actually struggling with a cut on one of my fingers I got at work... hurts like all get out and is making typing a bit tough at the mo... and for me that's saying alot as I'm a speed typist from many years of working in the publishing industry... 135 wpm on my best days but not tonight. Having to be really careful not to make errors.

Dan

[Bob Lyons]

Many thanks Bob! And no problem re: the concur. I'm actually struggling with a cut on one of my fingers I got at work... hurts like all get out and is making typing a bit tough at the mo... and for me that's saying alot as I'm a speed typist from many years of working in the publishing industry... 135 wpm on my best days but not tonight. Having to be really careful not to make errors.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Small world, I was a Sigs operator in the army for 20 years, and one of my tasks was as a teleprinter/keyboard operator, and I was once fairly nimble on the ol' keyboard too, but

left the army about 21 years back, and have been involved in shipboard firefighting and light rescue since, so all typing skills I picked up with the army have just about all been

relegated to the memory banks these days. (the old 'how good I used to be syndrome'). As an aside, I was also once up around 28 WPM on Morse code too, all of that is now

also in the mostly forgotten part of the memory banks !

Best wishes from Australia,

Cheers

Bob

[Hauptmann]

Hi Dan,

Small world, I was a Sigs operator in the army for 20 years, and one of my tasks was as a teleprinter/keyboard operator, and I was once fairly nimble on the ol' keyboard too, but

left the army about 21 years back, and have been involved in shipboard firefighting and light rescue since, so all typing skills I picked up with the army have just about all been

relegated to the memory banks these days. (the old 'how good I used to be syndrome'). As an aside, I was also once up around 28 WPM on Morse code too, all of that is now

also in the mostly forgotten part of the memory banks !

Best wishes from Australia,

Cheers

Bob

Ahhh yes, Morse... I learned it myself but long since forgotten except for a few letters. If only we could retain such things longer than we do without using them day to day. Sigh.

Dan

[shaneos3]

Hi Bob,Hauptman and John ,

Thank-you for the great information and for posting some nice original items as period examples. Very helpful to myself as well as others I am sure. I have no doubt that the aluminium breast eagle is authentic as it conforms with known originals but I have to say that I agree entirely about the goblet - I have only an army and political goblet to compare it with and Luftwaffe goblets such as the "Ehrenpokal" seem to be quite different to these. There seems to very little information available about Luftwaffe goblets other than the "Honour Goblet" and as such your opinions about these are much appreciated.

Best Wishes Shaneos3

Photo of the base of an Army Goblet - vaguely similar to the base of a silver Ehrenpokal