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On 7/12/2014 at 18:38, johnnymac said:

Thank you for the comeback I have enjoyed your website as many others do.

 

The Casa Butuller firm, as you wrote, sold several different types of medals, if I'm to understand you correctly. But since Laslo's books, many more official, unofficial and repro medals have been found.

 

Normally when a company is selling an item, the item remains the same unless they are not the maker but the buyer of the item in question. So could it be that Butuller was the only seller "or" the outlet for many medal makers?

Look at the medal itself there is more than one difference than just the suspension ring as you suggested. Look at the rays of light going from wing to wing and note how they go from large rays to small rays at the middle and back to larger rays on the other wing. Also as I highlighted in my illustrations, the faces are different as well as the bunch of flowers, dress and the suspensions.

 

I can agree that many unofficial medals may have come from Butuller's firm. However I cannot agree that they should have the same classification as an unofficial type-1 as listed in Laslo's book. I can agree, though, they should be classified as unofficial type-1A and unofficial type-1B , C, D and so on, coming from the firm of Butuller in Lisbon, with maker unknown.

 

Many should realize that Laslo's book was not the definitive edition. As I know my own book (World War I, Victory Medals, by Michels 2014 - being sold on Amazon) is not "the last word" as well.

 

Sorry for book selling plug.

Grouping new.jpg

Dear johnnymac,

In my opinion, the photo of medal by site "Order of decorations of medals 1914-1918" (on the right) is in very low resolution and of poor quality...(medal appear to be stretched)  probably this fact makes we to mistake:  i have this medal... for me is like unofficial tipe-3 of your book (pag.254 2nd ed.)
Probably a Butuller's new type. 

What do you think?

Thank's for your Book (i love it) and sorry for my bad English.

Macchianera72

but french site.jpg

medailles1914-1918fr.png

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If i understand you rigth these are the two medals you are asking about. If these are medals, I do not think they are same medal and here's why.

Ckeck the blue and red sections I have marked and you will see the differences between each.

d.jpg

Edited by johnnymac
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/15/2017 at 05:49, davidck said:

Hi Percy, that looks to me like an unofficial type 1.  There is, however, an official type 2 that just got put on eBay, if you're interested in taking a swing:
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORTUGAL-WW-I-INTER-ALLIED-VICTORY-MEDAL-ISSUED-1919-MEDALHA-DA-VIToRIA-SCARSE-/122311327186?hash=item1c7a52bdd2:g:VRsAAOSwA3dYejon

 

Hi David...thanks for the heads-up on this one, gave it a swing but someone outbid me! :o

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Dear All,

I recently added this Portuguese Victory Medal to my collection.

I have checked the previous discussion on the different types and as I understand this one is an official type 2 version. Am I right with this idea? Is this a period, first strike piece?

Another thing I would like to ask for your opinions. The ribbon of the medal is sadly frayed so I'm thinking about adding some period ribbon material as a replacement. I tried to compare the ribbon material to my other Victory Medals and the closest one in color, touch I found was the ribbon of the French Morlon Victory Medal. Are the portuguese used a distinctive ribbon type for their Victory Medals like the czech or an original period Morlon type ribbon would be a good replacement for this?

Many thanks in advance for your replies.

Kind regards,

Bence

port 1.jpg

port 2.jpg

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Dear All,
I just was offered a Portuguese VM and tried to ID it, but have to admit that I'm a little confused by the different types.
It looks somewhat like Reproduction type-4?
I would be very thankfull for your advice!

 

port1.jpg

port2.jpg

port3.jpg

Edited by Auseklis
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18 hours ago, Auseklis said:

Dear All,
I just was offered a Portuguese VM and tried to ID it, but have to admit that I'm a little confused by the different types.
It looks somewhat like Reproduction type-4?
I would be very thankfull for your advice!

 

port1.jpg

port2.jpg

port3.jpg

Hi

Replica "modern", I think it is not worth it, there are still many Type 2 official. It's worth waiting a bit longer. That's just my opinion.

Cheers

Lambert

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  • 1 year later...

Medalha da Vitória (versão Portuguesa) modelo não oficial

model not official.

pm

Medalha da Vitória (versão Portuguesa) modelo não oficial

  •  
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Aqui ficam imagens de outra MV modelo não oficial do tipo 1 cunhada pela casa Buttuller...pelo que pude saber, parece que existem 4 versões não oficiais e 2 oficiais desta medalha (uma versão portuguesa e outra francesa)...existe também uma obra de um tal de Alexandre Laslo ou Lazlo, sobre a medalha da vitória interaliada que contêm informações sobre essas variantes.

nfrzua.jpg

TntgKLvkB5pbyUV3JiY6TQ.jpg

transferir.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition is this Portugal Repro Type 1 - or is it??

d4bbvlz.jpg

2OBGwTf.jpg

For sure it has the BRONZE and a triangle on the edge ...

wHKXfIf.jpg

... but the design in the triangle is hard to make out. I tried scanning the edge from different angles and these are the clearest images I can manage ...

APBq3VN.jpg

3lHlSSh.jpg

... and it seems to me I can see a star at the top of the triangle and a circle in the centre of the bottom. That would seem to be this mark ...

4aYEkOF.jpg

.. which makes it a product of Arthus Bertrand! Laslo says that the Repro Type 1 is by Chobillon - which should have the triangle with AC stamp, and this isn't that stamp. I have one by Delande with the square stamp with a bee, also not in Laslo. So, have I found another unknown Portugal Repro??

All comments welcome.

Edited by Bilco
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Searching a bit wider, I've found mention of several Arthus Bertrand Portugese vic reproductions on FIM, so I guess it's not new. Perhaps the really rare one is the Chobillon version. I wonder if Laslo saw one with a triangle mark that was as hard to read as mine, and just assumed it was Chobillon ...

Bill

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Bill,

Your assumption is correct. The Repro type 1 was indeed produced by Arthus Bertrand, and it is quite a difficult example to find.  The Delande produced repro is not listed in Laslo.

Regards,
Rob

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  • 1 month later...
On 08/08/2018 at 19:27, lambert said:

Yes it's an Official medal with the Italian ribbon (maybe) .. It's a good piece. 

:cheers:

Lambert 

Thanks for these hints. What do you think the reasonable market price for these is nowadays? I dont want to overpay for it. 

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On 12/08/2018 at 4:35 AM, Zsebora said:

Thanks for these hints. What do you think the reasonable market price for these is nowadays? I dont want to overpay for it. 

I do not know for sure, it has been a long time since I followed the sales auctions. ... :(

Lambert 

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Just acquired is a Portugal Official Type 2, together with the lid of the box from the firm Frederico Costa of Lisbon

sPzFldw.jpg?1

However, the buckle on the ribbon barely fits into the lid, and would definitely not fit into the bottom half if it were present. So, I'm wondering if the buckle is a piece of bling fitted by the awardee after receiving the medal. Maybe that's why there isn't a bottom half to the box - the medal no longer fitted, so it was discarded.

I'd be interested in any thoughts or insights you Gentlemen may have on this.

Bill

Edited by Bilco
Wrong photo
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  • 4 weeks later...

Congratulations Bil !! Very nice.

Unfortunately I do not know the symbolism of the buckle on the Ribbon of the Medal .. I have Portuguese collectors friends, but not even they have consensus on the purpose. I think it may be by the time of service; example: 10 years of Armed Forces etc ... but I'm not sure. So I believe the Buckle can be inserted into the Ribbon after some time. 

Regards 

Lambert

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I contacted the Academia Falerística de Portugal to ask about buckles on Portuguese medals. Senhor Paulo Estrela of the Academia sent this reply:

 

The buckle, a Portuguese type device, usually is a part of Portuguese decorations; 
but after 1971 regulation Portuguese military medals lost it and nowadays almost none 
is award with.

So, for Portugal’s Victory Medal a bronze buckle is required according with regulation.
After one year, it was decided to issue a small silver star (to be wear on the buckle’s
center) to distinguished the combatants from the so-called non-combatants veterans.
However, many combatants never applied to receive it, even because it was decided after
many people returned to their civilian status.

So, there we have it - all Portuguese WW1 Victory medals should have the buckle ...

 

Bill

Edited by Bilco
spellin of the weak
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Bill,

A nice pickup with the green Frederico Costa box.  These boxes are also seen in a darker blue colour as well.  Either way they are not easy to find in complete non-crushed condition.

Regards,
Rob

Edited by RobW
Added detail.
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Hello everybody,

I would like to call on your experience to help with these three medals I have had in my collection for some time. I bought them as genuine but I have my suspicions so I appreciate any honest feedback. Laslo's pictures are not clear enough, I need someone who's seen these before.

They are reputed to be (from left to right):

Laslo Official type 2

Unofficial type 1 (narrow cylinder)

Unofficial type 1 (wire suspension)

Portugal obverse low.jpg

and the reverse

Portugal reverse low.jpg

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sumserbrown,

The first could be an Official Type 2, although it is a little worn, which makes it a little difficult to identify. The other two I have never seen before, so not sure about either of them. 

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