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Portuguese Victory Medals


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Hi David,

What does it for me is the face on the medal currently on eBay. The features are very crude compared to the original Type 1:

portvichead_zpsbb1970c0.jpg

Left the original, right the eBay medal.

There is a similar one, though the face isn't quite as crude, in a post Lambert made - post # 43/44. There is an example of the original Type 1 at post # 37, and a picture of the original design master at post # 120.

As you know, I have the Delande repro of the Type 2, and the face on that is much finer, so I don't think it's by Delande.

Bill

Edited by Bilco
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David,

Thank you for the purchase I hope that are finding my book enjoyable and interesting.

You are absolutely correct about the one in question on ebay not being in my book. There are at least 15 different types of the Portuguese Victory medals out there.

Too many of these reproductions and fake medals were just too costly to buy, like this one in question above with it asking price of $174 USD plus S&H. In my book I only entered medals which I had or were ones my friends had or ones I could get from other victory medal collectors. With that said I will point out that I did post in my book 120 illustrated victory medals showing both the front and reverse view of each medal.

Staying on the subject of Portuguese medals, the crack die unofficial type-2 listed by Laslo is another good example of a medal not in my book. Laslo listed in his book: it "appears" to be a very early replacement medal……. The word "appears" to me, sound like there is uncertainty and he cannot confirm it as being made for the purpose he offers.

My believe is, it is a fake medal sold to unsuspecting buyers looking for a Portuguese victory medal back in the day, 30s, 40s, 50s and so on. I have 2 Cuban cracked dies medals both marked with AC in a triangle and half word bronze on the rim, both with a ball suspension and every bit a match to the so called Portuguese unofficial type-2 crack die. The Dealer I purchased these Cuban medals from has been selling "all" the interallied medals for years. Where he got his supply from he is not saying.

As you can see I have posted the Cuban cracked die medals I have for your interest.

Regards, Jim

Edited by johnnymac
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There are some who hate when I use words like, FAKE or TO FOOL buyers. I say to them, not all medals were made to fill in a collections ,if they were made to fill in then why is the cost outrageous in most cases.

Just think these medals I posted are just the ones I know are out there. I ask you, would you say, medals from 6 on were all made to just fill in a collection.

  1. Official type-1

  2. Official type-1 - From the cover of the JOAO DA SILVA catalog.

  3. Official type-2

  4. Official type-3 - May be late issue, (not in Laslo' book) and does look a little like # 1?

  5. Official type-3 – Could this too be late issue, (not in Laslo' book)?

  6. Unofficial type-1 – (illustration from Laslo's book).

  7. Unofficial type-1 – Same # 6 with a different suspension.

  8. Unofficial type-1 - Same # 6 with a different suspension and gilded.

  9. Unofficial type-1 - Same # 6 different suspension a wire loop.

  10. Unofficial type-2 - (Cracked die illustration from Laslo's book, with egg shape head)?

  11. Reproduction type-1 / M. Delande / Made in France (illustration not in Laslo' book).

  12. Reproduction type-2 / Unknown - illustration not in Laslo' book.

  13. Reproduction type-3 / Unknown - illustration not in Laslo' book.

  14. Reproduction type-4 / Unknown - illustration not in Laslo' book.

  15. Reproduction type-5 / Collector Web (illustration not in Laslo' book).

  16. (the third photo) Also not in Laslo's book is this wire-loop type. Although on the French website, "Orders of Decorations of medals 1914-1918" they list it as being a recent medal from the establishment of Casa Bulluller and as the Laslo's unofficial type-1? Looking at number 6 in the grouping of 15, number 6 is the one in which Laslo's listed in his book as an unofficial type-1, I ask do you think they are the same as the one from the French website?

  1. (the third photo) Just looking at the top of the ladies head and the ring suspension you can noticeably see the spacing between this medal and these other medals 15 above. Also the rays get smaller starting at the wings as it gets to the hole for the ring suspension. To me it is not a match to the Laslo's unofficial medal or the other medals but just another version of the Portuguese Medal.

(The second photo) The black and white illustration, the egg shape head medal is listed in Laslo's book as the unofficial type-2 cracked die. Which he said "appears" to be a replacement medal....., I do not think so, as it looks as bad as the last 4 in the grouping of 15.

Regards, Jim

click on photo

Edited by johnnymac
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hello,
I will bring some clarification on the classification Unofficial type 1 for the medal presented on my website...
After buying the Laslo's book (first edition) at the end of the 80's, I wrote to Butuller firm from Lisbon and bought 3 victory medals (this is one of them which is pictured on my website) before the buildings were destroyed by fire. Even if it's different (mainly wire loop suspension) from that presented by Laslo as Butuller replacement medal / unofficial type 1, it's really a Butuller production and so, I classified this medal as Laslo. This means that Butuller firm sold several productions of this medal with some differences... Butuller firm has manufactured all medals that sold in the 80's? I don't know.
Cheers
Marne
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Thank you for the comeback I have enjoyed your website as many others do.

The Casa Butuller firm, as you wrote, sold several different types of medals, if I'm to understand you correctly. But since Laslo's books, many more official, unofficial and repro medals have been found.

Normally when a company is selling an item, the item remains the same unless they are not the maker but the buyer of the item in question. So could it be that Butuller was the only seller "or" the outlet for many medal makers?

Look at the medal itself there is more than one difference than just the suspension ring as you suggested. Look at the rays of light going from wing to wing and note how they go from large rays to small rays at the middle and back to larger rays on the other wing. Also as I highlighted in my illustrations, the faces are different as well as the bunch of flowers, dress and the suspensions.

I can agree that many unofficial medals may have come from Butuller's firm. However I cannot agree that they should have the same classification as an unofficial type-1 as listed in Laslo's book. I can agree, though, they should be classified as unofficial type-1A and unofficial type-1B , C, D and so on, coming from the firm of Butuller in Lisbon, with maker unknown.

Many should realize that Laslo's book was not the definitive edition. As I know my own book (World War I, Victory Medals, by Michels 2014 - being sold on Amazon) is not "the last word" as well.

Sorry for book selling plug.

Edited by johnnymac
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  • 1 month later...

Easy, this is an original and it is the one most encountered. From what I can see, outside it's ribbon, it is an excellent find and in excellent condition. I also like the fact that it came with the extra hardware, (buckle and top pin

).

 

Regards, Jim

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Peron,

 

Victory statue by João da Silva detail of the monument comemorating the portuguese death soldiers on the 1º WW on the city of Évora Portugal...

 

 

 

x1j48y.png

 

The similarities between this statue and the obverse of the Portuguese vic, are obvious.

 

Thanks for posting this picture.

 

Regards,
Rob

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  • 6 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi...

Here's my finding of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!

A nice MV in original box from Frederico da Costa engraving shops in Lisbon

Regards

Peron

Hello Peron,

As has already been indicated quite a nice pick up that you have. Finding any vic in good condition is always a challenge. Finding them in their original period boxes, that are also in good to moderate condition can be quite difficult. Some of the other medals produced by Frederico da Costa are also seen in red coloured boxes.

Regards,

Rob

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  • 2 months later...
5 hours ago, peron said:
5 hours ago, peron said:

 

Hi

And here it is the oficial João da Silva Victory medal (one of 800 made)...

n3n7m1.jpg

Regards

P.

Hello Peron,

Thanks for posting this larger pic of the official type 1 planchet.  Posting such close-up pictures certainly assists new collectors to see the die differences between this type 1 and the subsequently more prevalent type 2.

Aside from the Brazil type 1 this Portugal type 1 is probably the rarest examples to find in the vic series.

Regards,
Rob

Edited by RobW
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  • 2 months later...
  • 10 months later...

Hi guys,

I am pretty new to the forum and still absorbing the wealth of information contained on it.

My VM collection is slowly growing and here is one of my latest acquisitions that I think is pretty nice and, from reading through this thread, is an official type 2. Could someone please confirm and give a boost to my confidence in these matters. :D

I also have a Rumanian one that I will post on the relevant thread.

Cheers,

Percy

 

 

 

 

 

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_005.jpg

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_003.jpg

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_004.jpg

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_006.jpg

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_001.jpg

Tim_Museum_170114_Portugal_Victory_Medal_002.jpg

Edited by Percy Chapman
upload extra photos :-)
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Hi Percy, that looks to me like an unofficial type 1.  There is, however, an official type 2 that just got put on eBay, if you're interested in taking a swing:
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORTUGAL-WW-I-INTER-ALLIED-VICTORY-MEDAL-ISSUED-1919-MEDALHA-DA-VIToRIA-SCARSE-/122311327186?hash=item1c7a52bdd2:g:VRsAAOSwA3dYejon

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Hi David, thanks for your response...it has made me go back through this thread and re-visit the relevant posts and images! Good for my learning curve. So now I see the differences between an official type 2 and the one I have which, as you suggest, is the unofficial type 1.

Thanks also for the eBay link. The question is do I need another Portuguese VM  or will my unofficial type 1 satisfy my collection needs!?!?! If I ask my wife I know what she would say! :o

Cheers, Percy

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Hello Percy,

Welcome aboard the forum.  I am sure you will find a trove of information on vics here amongst the threads.

Noting your comment about the Portugal unofficial type 1 vic; the question of whether or not it will suffice as a country example type, is entirely up to you.  If you are just collecting the official strikes of each county your search will be short and, over time, relatively achievable.  If however you are looking to obtain all the unofficial strikes in addition to the official strikes, in order to have a more complete collection that will take a considerably longer time and much more effort.

It is up to you; after all, it is your collection.  Everyone here collecting vics does so for their own reasons.

Regards,
Rob

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Hi Rob,

Thank you for your welcome. I am certainly finding that trove of information.

Indeed, though the question was slightly rhetorical, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. At this point in time, as I collect other items as well, I would be tending just to go for the official strikes of each country.

Thanks again and btw I love your Phantom avatar...I was once a member of the long gone Phantom Club of Australia and still have a good Phantom comic collection. :D

Cheers,

Percy

 

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