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Here is one of my new find from Belfast - Order of British Empire, Military Division, 1st Type.

I find all the info about the order, but maybe someone can help me as well with the stamp on the reverse.

17674661b334f9_o.jpg

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Close up of the stamp.

176750552749ab_l.jpg

Like I understand:

- SG stands for Sebastian Henry Garrard (Garrard & Co Ltd)

- rose?

- star ?

- ? I prsume it's the year. In this case can it be 1919 made order?

Does second or third symbol means London?

award ring is circle.

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Close up of the stamp.

176750552749ab_l.jpg

Like I understand:

- SG stands for Sebastian Henry Garrard (Garrard & Co Ltd)

- rose?

- star ?

- ? I prsume it's the year. In this case can it be 1919 made order?

Does second or third symbol means London?

award ring is circle.

London Hallmark for 1919......

Maker - Lion - Leopard's Head - Date letter for 1919........

Mike

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Good Evening Greg.......

This is how I understand it.........

I may be wrong but it have been numerous posts on the BMF.......

1) The early insignia by Garrards were hallmarked because they were made by a private company;

2) The insignia made by the Royal Mint were not hallmarked because the Mint is exempt from that requirement;

3) The insignia made now (and recently) by various manufacturers are not hallmarked because they are made under contract for the Royal Mint.....

Mike

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Good Evening Greg.......

This is how I understand it.........

I may be wrong but it have been numerous posts on the BMF.......

1) The early insignia by Garrards were hallmarked because they were made by a private company;

2) The insignia made by the Royal Mint were not hallmarked because the Mint is exempt from that requirement;

3) The insignia made now (and recently) by various manufacturers are not hallmarked because they are made under contract for the Royal Mint.....

Mike

Thanks Mike. That eases my mind. Greg.

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  • 1 month later...

and I just picked up 2nd type, military division from Dublin coin dealer for 30 euro (I hope I didn't pay too much?). No maker marks, so can I presume that this one is made by Royal Mint as well?

179603156d9d4f_o.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Is there any figures around as well how many type 1 cross where awarded? Also which one is more common; military- or civil division..... basicly, how easy is to find next to the military division a excample of civilian one as well?:whistle:

Regards,

Timo

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Good Morning Timo........

Sorry but I am unable to tell you how many Civil vs Military were issued....... Of course with WW1 going on you would think that a lot of Military were given out but I think that there might have been more Civil because it was given to people who gave assistance on the home front mostly..... I have a man who has the Military First Type OBE and a Civil Second Type CBE..... Without the papers it is hard to tell if it was Military / Civil as all you have to do is change the ribbon and people will pay more for a military over a civil version....

Mike

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  • 7 years later...

Hello Gents,  I have a question pertaining to the above enlarged photo of this M.B.E.'s Hallmarks. Could anyone please advise on Stamps # 2 & # 3, respectively ? Of the show 4 markings, I'm aware of #'s 1 ( SG = Sebastian Garrard ) & # 4 ( London date letter for 1919 ) I 'think' # 3 may be the Lion / Leopard's head, but am not too sure as to it's meaning ?  So if anyone would be so kind as to provide a brief idea as Stamps # 2 & 3, I would be most appreciative. THANK YOU

       Best,  dpast32  /  dpast32@aol.com

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13 hours ago, dpast32 said:

Hello Gents,  I have a question pertaining to the above enlarged photo of this M.B.E.'s Hallmarks. Could anyone please advise on Stamps # 2 & # 3, respectively ? Of the show 4 markings, I'm aware of #'s 1 ( SG = Sebastian Garrard ) & # 4 ( London date letter for 1919 ) I 'think' # 3 may be the Lion / Leopard's head, but am not too sure as to it's meaning ?  So if anyone would be so kind as to provide a brief idea as Stamps # 2 & 3, I would be most appreciative. THANK YOU

       Best,  dpast32  /  dpast32@aol.com

The leopard's head is the mark for the London Assay Office (the lion indicates that it is sterling silver, of course). This page explains this and other Assay Office marks

http://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONARYDECRYPTINGUKSTERLINGMARKS.html

I am not completely convinced that the date mark is for 1919 as I can't see the riser for a gothic lower case 'd'. Rather, it looks like a gothic 'o' (1929) to me. Perhaps that can only be confirmed by another look at the letter through a loupe and a comparison with the date letters on this page,

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/London/Cycle 1916-1935.html

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Hello Gents,  I have a question pertaining to the above enlarged photo of this M.B.E.'s Hallmarks. Could anyone please advise on Stamps # 2 & # 3, respectively ? Of the show 4 markings, I'm aware of #'s 1 ( SG = Sebastian Garrard ) & # 4 ( London date letter for 1919 ) I 'think' # 3 may be the Lion / Leopard's head, but am not too sure as to it's meaning ?  So if anyone would be so kind as to provide a brief idea as Stamps # 2 & 3, I would be most appreciative. THANK YOU

       Best,  dpast32  /  dpast32@aol.com

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Good Morning 'Trooper D', 

        I THANK YOU for your prompt reply ! I have confirmed the 1919 date stamp on 'my' M.B.E. example, & it does appear to be exactly as found on the above example. I'd still like to confirm the 2nd stamp down in the row, just below the top, SG mkg. It's again, exactly the same as found on the above example. I've looked over a few brochures  & related pub's, just can't seem to find exactly what I'm looking for ? It appears to be similar to an early script / calligraphy style letter, or something quite similar ? If you happen to be aware of it's meaning, I'd truly appreciate hearing your comments. THANKS Again !!

      Best regards,  dpast32  / dpast32@aol.com

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 OK, I think I've finally "saw the light', so to speak ! Apparently, what I've been assuming was an script letter or something similar, is actually the standard 'Lion' proof marking !! OK, now I get it ! So basically, I have a 1919 mfg'd, 1st Type, Military Division M.B.E. I was at a loss trying to decipher the various Hallmarks until I picked a cheap pair of Jeweler's Loupes. ( 10x & 30x ) Once they arrived, I had no trouble at all reading the proofs, except for # 3, the 3rd stamp down / 2nd up from the bottom. That troublesome little bugger proved a bit difficult. However, by study & deduction, I determined that it had to be the 'Lion Head' mkg, pretty much by default. So, I'm quite pleased with everything so far, & am extremely pleased & THANKFUL for all the kind assistance & input I've received here on the GMIC !!   Take care Gent's,

        Best,   Dom Pastore Jr.  /  dpast32@aol.com

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  • 2 years later...

Has anyone information on the MBE/OBE manufacturer activity periods?  Garrard examples seem to be earliest [1917-?], then Royal Mint [19??-197??] then contractors like Spink, Toye, Kenning & Spenser, Gladman & Norman Ltd, Worcestershire Medal Service and ???

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