Pte. Charles Whyte, 10082, R.Irish Fus.

[Noor]

Hi guys,

Here is one another research project, who medal I obtained. So far I have his Medal Index Card. This confirms that Pte. Whyte was entitled to 14/15 Star trio. He entered to the war in France 19th December 1914. Moved to Army Reserve Section "B" some point (this is listed without the effective date).

I presume he served with the regular battalion. http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/ confirms that closest regimental numbers enlisted to 1st and 2nd regular Royal Irish Fusiliers battalions:

10008 joined on 13th August 1908

10312 joined on 16th August 1909

Also The Long, Long Trail (http://www.1914-1918.net/rifus.htm) shows that the 2nd Battalion landed in Le Havre on the 19th December 1914 same date as his MIC shows qualification to 1914/15 Star. So, I presume he served with the 2nd Battalion (I will try to get medal roles as well to confirm it 100%)?

Maybe someone who has Findmypast access, can check does his Army Pension file exist online (WO 97 Army Pensions series)?

Now Irish Census. I was able to find three same names on Ireland Census:

1901 Census possibilities

Whyte Charles Down Age 40

Whyte Charles Dublin Age 40

Whyte Charles Monaghan Age 12

I presume last one would be the right person? However, when I checked 1911 Census he does not show up on the same family list. There is remark (what weren't in use in 1901 Census Children born 11 / Children living 6 and Charles' name is missing. How I should "read" that record ; their child died between 1901-1911 or he is not listed there because he joined the army and reflect that, the figure is changed to 6 (some of them must be died as well because cap of 5)?

1911 Census possibilities

Whyte Charles Donegal Age 15

Whyte Charles M Dublin Age 63

Whyte Robert Charles Cavan Age 22

Whyte Blayney Charles Cavan Age 39

I presume Charles from Donegal, age 15 is only possibility IF he joined the army around 1913-1914 but as regimental number states I think he joined before that date (1908/1909).

So, can I be sure that the right Charles Whyte's was from Monaghan family?

Does the soldiers, who was moved to reserve (Section "B" A.R.) have been listed somewhere? Also when it usually happened, end of the WW1 period or any time when their service in colours got done as contract stated?

Any ideas how to proceed would be great! Also any extra information what is available about him.

Kind Regards,

Timo aka Noor

Edited May 24, 2011 by Noor

[Graham Stewart]

From what I remember of Section 'B' of the Army Reserve, it was usually directed to those who were invovlved in important "War Work", with the proviso that they could be possibly called up at a later date.

Many of those who voluntarily enlisted under the "Derby Scheme" in 1915, were duly placed into Section 'B' of the Army Reserve and then were called up in January 1916. These men especially had commitments and jobs which didn't allow then to enlist immediatley hence placing them on the Reserve until required.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Noor]

Hi Graham,

Thank you for replay! I was actually lucky and got now his pension records! He enlisted from Armagh on the 16th October 1908. Served in India and landed in France with the Battalion on the 19th December 1914 - just like I tought! Also he was from Co.Monaghan - so I got him right in Census as well. Beginners luck!

He had some health issues in India - sandfly, malaria. Also hospitalised to England (Racecourse VA Hospital, Cheltenham) summer 1915 for a almost a month. Fit for a light duty after.

He was sent to the Army Reserve on the 19th April 1919 because Malaria.

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Graham,

Thank you for replay! I was actually lucky and got now his pension records! He enlisted from Armagh on the 16th October 1908. Served in India and landed in France with the Battalion on the 19th December 1914 - just like I tought! Also he was from Co.Monaghan - so I got him right in Census as well. Beginners luck!

He had some health issues in India - sandfly, malaria. Also hospitalised to England (Racecourse VA Hospital, Cheltenham) summer 1915 for a almost a month. Fit for a light duty after.

He was sent to the Army Reserve on the 19th April 1919 because Malaria.

Thats interesting as I would have expected him to have been discharged under Kings Regulations Paragraph 392(xvi) or (xvi)a, which covers wounds/sickness. Those in Section 'B' of the Army Reserve were by far and wide, physically fit for service and awaiting call-up. It would appear that as a "regular" soldier and having enlisted under peacetime terms and conditions - 12years service i.e. seven with the Colours and five with the Reserve, then he was wasn't due for complete discharge until 1920. Therefore he must have been medically downgraded to complete his service conditions.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

Those who attested and then transferred to Army Reserve Class 'B' were usually issued with these cards.

[Graham Stewart]

Another type for mineworkers who didn't become exempt until after the introduction of the Military Services Act.

[Graham Stewart]

Sorry Noor - I'll have to take back some of what I've said above as the "Section 'B' of the Army Reserve" you are referring too, is infact a Section of the Regular Army Reserve and as such this is what he was transferred to;-

Section B Reserve

The most common form of army reserve service. For men who had completed their service in the regular army and were serving their normal period (typically of five years) on reserve. Section B reservists could only be called upon in the event of general mobilisation. Pay was 3 shillings and 6 pence a week. He had to attend twelve training days per year.

Your man being a regular who had enlisted in 1908 would have completed his first seven years Colour service in 1915 and would have then have been discharged and transferred to the Army Reserve to complete his five years on the Reserve. However as the War was then taking place this would have been deferred, until such times he could be released.

I was getting confused with a "Class 'B' Army Reserve" introduced during WWI for voluntarily attested men.

[Noor]

no worries at all! Great to get it confirmed by you because i am new of researching British awards! And you docs are great! I saw regular army reserve material on LLT web as well. So, all makes sence in the end! Now medal role hopefully confirm did he went to the Balkans as well or was moved to some another battalion.

Thanks,

Timo

[Noor]

Initial write-up and the medal...

next one, who's write-up I just finishedthumbsup

Charles Whyte (1889 – xxxx)

Private

2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers

"Faugh-a-Ballaghs"

Victory Medal named to “10082 Pte Whyte R.IR.FUS”

Regimental number 10082

Entitled:

- 1914-15 Star (Role B103/93 Page 250)

- Victory Medal (Role B103/93 Page 250)

- British War Medal (Role B3b/Page 308)

Charles Whyte was born in Clones, Co Monaghan in 1889 as a son of William and Mary Ellen Whyte. Whyte’s family lived in Cara Street, Clones Urban, Co.Monaghan. (3)

On the pension records, Charles lists his trade as a labourer. Also he had three sisters Sarah Anne, Ellen, Elizabeth and two brothers William Henry and James Joseph. They were Roman Catholic’s.

Referring to the medical check up, he was 5 feet and 5 3/4 inches tall, weight 131 pounds (4).

He enlisted from 16th October 1908, from Armagh (4). He was accepted as fit for the Army and he was enlisted as a private to the 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers (known as a “Faugh-a-Ballaghs” - Clear the Way). His regimental number was 10082 (4/7).

At this time his regimental garrison depot was located at Armagh town (8).

In the summer of 1911 private Whyte’s battalion started preparing for service in India. 16th August he was permitted by medical commission, fit for service in India where he landed 25th January 1912.

His unit served in Quetta, Baluchistan as a part of 4th (Quetta) Division. 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers served there as a part of 2nd Quetta Infantry Brigade, whose commander was VC winner Major General Sir Charles John Melliss (9/10). At this time private Charles Whyte picked up Sandfly and probably also Malaria (4).

When the Great War started, 2nd Battalion was shipped back to Europe. They arrived to Winchester on 20th November 1914 and became part of 82nd Brigade in 27th Division. A month later his battalion landed in Le Havre, France on the 19th December 1914 (1/5). It is most likely then that private Whyte got his first war experience in bitter quick-firing artillery and machine gun battles.

However at this time his health worsened and he was evacuated on the 24th of June 1915 back to England to Cheltenham Racecourse VA hospital, which held around 102 patients daily in 1915 (11). 10th July 1915 he was discharged from there as a fit for a light duty (4).

Meanwhile 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers was moved to Salonika, where they arrived in December 1915. It is impossible to say did private Charles Whyte served with the unit at this time or stayed home. The following year, on the 2nd of November 1916 the battalion was transferred to 31st Brigade in 10th (Irish) Division. The next move took place in September 1917 when they were moved to Egypt for service in Palestine (5).

19th April 1919 private Whyte was moved to Army Reserve (Section “B”) because of Malaria which he contracted during his service. Section B reservists could only be called upon in the event of general mobilisation. Pay was 3 shillings and 6 pence a week. He had to attend twelve training days per year (6).

Source:

(1) Medal Index Card

(2) Medal Roles

(3) Census of Ireland 1901 – National Archives of Ireland

(4) Pensioner’s Record Card/Medical History

(5) The Long, Long Trail – The British Army of 1914-1918 – for family historians

http://www.1914-1918.net/rifus.htm

(6) The Long, Long Trail – The British Army of 1914-1918 – for family historians

http://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm

(7) Army Service Numbers 1881-1918

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/

(8) Royal Irish Fusiliers – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Fusiliers

(9) 4th (Quetta) Division – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_(Quetta)_Division

(10) Charles John Melliss – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_John_Melliss

(11) Cheltenham Racecourse VA hospital

http://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/redcross/racecourse.html