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I bought a very interesting ribbon bar from a forum member (hope you don´t mind that I borrowed your photo Christhope blush.gif )

A five awards ribbonbar with EKII-HHO3x-OV3bx-FAII-EfF and of course its the OV3bx that makes it so unusual :cheers:

With only 33 awarded during WW1 I though I would try to narrow down the possible recipients.

Here is the suspects:

OberLt Richard Suhrkamp IR 91

Lt Eckert IR 91

Lt Pflugradt IR 91

Lt Hess IR 91

Lt Schumann IR 91

Lt Weichardt IR 91

Lt Becker IR 91

Lt Wilhelm Conze IR 91

Lt Max Büschel IR 91

Lt Helmut Gabriel IR 91

Lt Ernst Peltner IR 91

OberLt Fritz Hellmuth IR 91

Lt Stolz IR 91

Lt Lueder IR 91

OberLt Ziegler IR 91

Lt Carstens IR 91

Lt Franz Smits IR 161

OberLt zur See Heino von Heimburg KM

OberLt zur See Max Valentin Uboat Com

Lt Eckert IR 91

Lt Georg Röver RIR 74

Lt Karl Geise RIR 17

Lt Karl Arnold IR 115

OberLt Georg Ruhstrat FAR 58

Lt Reinhard Murken RIR 79

Lt Walter Böning Jagd Staffel 76

Lt Edward Gesell Pioneer Komp 185

Lt Friedrichsen RFA 17

Lt Siegfried Harms Fus Rgt 86

OberLt Ahlhorn IR 82

Lt Wegmann RIR 229

Lt Thien FAR 62

Lt von Essen FAR 62

Of these 33 we can remove some :rolleyes:

Thanks to Dave we are now down to : 14 ! :jumping:

Big Thank You Dave, from 28 to 14 :cheers:

[

Lt von Essen is a top candidate because he had exact these awards but do anyone have any info about how many of the above 28 (22) who had HHO3x ? or was killed during war or anything other info :cheers:

I will keep on searching !

Christer

Edited by Chairman
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Lt Max Büschel IR 91

Lt.d.R. Max Büschel is out. He was a native of Eisenach and received several Saxe-Weimar decorations (Allg. Ehrenzeichen in Silber mit Schwerterspange, Wilhelm Ernst-Kriegskreuz, and possibly the White Falcon though those rolls are incomplete). Also, he was killed in action on 30 September 1918.

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Lt Weichardt IR 91

Lt Becker IR 91

Lt Wilhelm Conze IR 91

Lt Karl Arnold IR 115

OberLt Georg Ruhstrat FAR 58

OberLt Ahlhorn IR 82

  • Generalmajor Günther Weichardt also had the Austrian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration and Wehrmacht DA
  • Generalleutnant Carl Becker also had the Austrian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration and Wehrmacht DA
  • Generalmajor Wilhelm Conze also had the Austrian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration and Wehrmacht DA
  • LGIR 115 was a Hesse regiment, so an HT is likely for Arnold.
  • 1926 Ranklist shows Hptm. Ruhstrat also had the Lippe KVK [Hptm. 1.4.26 (14)]
  • Emil Ahlhorn had several other decorations

Of the rest, known HOH3X recipients are:

Lt.d.R. Schumann, IR 91

Lt.d.R. Gabriel, IR 91

Lt.d.R. Peltner, IR 91

Lt.d.R. Smits, IR 161

Lt. von Essen, FAR 62

HOH3X recipients whose units aren't clear, but who have the same names as officers on your list, so they are possibilities:

Lt.d.R. Eckert

Lt.d.R. Hess

Olt.d.R. Hellmuth

Lt.d.R. Carstens

Lt.d.R. Röver

Lt.d.R. Murken

Lt.d.R. Gesell

Lt.d.R. Harms

Lt.d.R. Wegmann

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  • 2 months later...

Hmm the search goes on , LtdR Freidrich Gesell was killed May 29th 1918 so probably one more off the list.

Wich leaves me with "possible" 12 suspects to this bar with 5 hotter candidates from IR 91 and FAR 62.

I must try to find a Regimential story for IR 91 and or FAR 62 maybe there are some clues in there

Christer

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I know we have already eliminated him, but here is a (grainy) photo of Karl Arnold. It shows that he did, indeed, have the Hessian Bravery Medal. Other than that, the same combination as yours.

Also, for what it's worth, the award dates:

EK2 - 28.1.1915

OFAK2 - 12.2.1915

HT - 18.10.1916

EK1 - 27.4.1917

OFAK1 - 5.5.1917

HOH3X - 23.2.1918

OV3bX - 23.4.1918

VAw - 20.8.1918

FKE - 15.12.1934

KVK2X - 30.1.1944

He was born on 23.4.1884 in Brake in Oldenburg, and served in IR 91 from 1.10.1910 to 23.3.1916, when he was transferred to LGIR 115. He was an Unteroffizier in the reserve of IR 91 from 1905 until the war began. He was promoted to Vizefeldwebel on 13.11.1914 and Leutnant der Reserve on 6.1.1915. He remained in LGIR 115 until being discharged on 3.12.1918.

He was shot in the upper leg on 7.12.1914 in France, shot in the hand and chest on 14.5.1915 in Russia, and wounded in both legs by a hand grenade on 13.4.1917 in Flanders.

He returned to reserve duty in 1937 and became an E-officer in 1939. Promoted Hauptmann on 1.4.1939, Major on 1.4.1940 and Oberstleutnant on 1.4.1943. He spent the war as a Sachbearbeiter in the Wehrbezirkskommando Oldenburg, except for a few months as Leiter der Wehrmeldeamts Emden.

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  • 4 months later...

Found out that Georg Röver LtdR RIR 74 got a HHoX sept 1917 so he is a candidate so far ! He brother was killed same year :(

He survived the war ending in hospital with broncitis ? spring 1918 and was discharged from Army 27th Nov 1918 as Leutn dR

Died 1960 in Oldenburg probably because of his war wounds (gas )

Christer

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  • 3 weeks later...

You didn´t thought I stopped searching did you ?

:cheeky: I found this fantastic book for the ones interested in Oldenburg Officers " Das Offizierskorps des Oldenburgischen Infanterie Regimente nr 91 während des Weltkrieges 1914/18 "

In that list I found not less then 6 Officers of my 12 candidates for the ribbon bar ....

Lt Heinrich Eckert HOH3x , EKI , EK II , OV3cX , OV I , OV 2 But killed 1918 so out of the list

Lt Robert Hess He had also REK3x and ÖMV3 kd so out of the list

OberLt Fritz Hellmuth He had also Hamburg Cross so out of the list

Lt Hans Carstens NO HOH3x so out of the list

Lt Ernst Peltner HOH3x, EKI , EKII ,OV3Cx, OVI , OV II mit der spange so probably out of the list (no holes for the spange on the ribbonbar)

Lt Hellmut Gabriel HoH3x, EKI , EK II , OV3Cx , OVI , OV II !!!!! Exactly match !!!

So I now have 7 suspects and two with exact this combo Lt von Essen FAR 62 and Lt Hellmut Gabriel InfRgt 91

The search goes on ....

Edited by christerd
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I have used all the info I can find about the OV3Cx and found only 32 awardees , the following officers by date :

OberLt Richard Suhrkamp Inf Rgt 91 18 sept 1917 ÖMV3 kd = not my man

Leutn Franz Smits Inf Rgt 161 18 sept 1917 No info about awards so possible

OberLt zur See Heino von Heimburg 7 oct 1917 many other awards = not my man

OberLt zur See Max valentin 27 dec 1917 many other awards = not my man

Leutn Heinrich Eckert Inf Rgt 91 17 jan 1918 KIA 1918 = not my man

Leutn Georg Röver Res Inf Rgt 74 8 feb 1918 no info so possible

Leutn Karl Giese Res Inf Rgt 17 21 feb 1918 Bavarian Rgt , still possible ?

Leutn Karl Arnold Inf Rgt 115 23 april 1918 Hessian with HTK = not my man

Leutn Gert Pflugradt Inf Rgt 91 22 may 1918 Bremen HK and ÖMV3 kd = not my man

Leutn Robert Hess Inf Rgt 91 22 may 1918 REK3x and ÖMV3 kd = not my man

Leutn Friedrich Schumann Inf Rgt 91 22 may 1918 HHo3x-EK I -EK II - OV3Cx - OF 1- OF II sp Vor Dem Feinde

spange = not my

man

Leutn Günther Weichardt Inf Rgt 91 22 may 1918 ÖMV3 kd = not my man

OberLeutn Georg Ruhstrat FAR 58 14 july 1918 Lippe KVK = not my man

Leutn Reinhard Murken Res Inf Rgt 79 14 july 1918 no info possible

Leutn Walter Böning JagdStaffel 76b 21 august 1918 Bavarian awards = not my man

Leutn Karl Becker Inf Rgt 91 23 august 1918 ÖMV3 kd = not my man

Leutn Wilhelm Conze Inf Rgt 91 23 august 1918 ÖMV3 kd = not my man

Leutn Max Büschel Inf Rgt 91 23 august 1918 KIA = not my man

Leutn Hellmuth Gabriel Inf Rgt 91 23 august 1918 OF II spange = not my man

Leutn Edward Gesell Pioneer kp 185 5 sept 1918 no info so possible

Leutn Friedrichsen Res FAR 17 18 sept 1918 no info so possible

Leutn Siegfried Harms Fus Rgt 86 30 sept 1918 no info so possible

Leutn Ernst Peltner Inf Rgt 91 6 oct 1918 spange = not my man

Oberleutn Ahlhorn Inf Rgt 82 16 oct 1918 more awards = not my man

OberLeutn Fritz Hellmuth Inf Rgt 91 24 oct 1918 Hamburg HK = not my man

Leutn KLaus Lueder Inf Rgt 91 8 nov 1918 Mecklenburg awards = not my man

Leutn Folfert Stotz Inf Rgt 91 8 nov 1918 Hamburg Hk = not my man

Oberlt Emil Ziegler Inf Rgt 91 8 nov 1918 Hessen Awards = not my man

Leutn Hans Carstens Inf Rgt 91 8 nov 1918 No HOH3 x = not my man

Leutn Wegmann Res Inf Rgt 229 27 jan 1919 no info so possible

Leutn Thien FAR 62 20 feb 1919 no info so possible

Leutn von Essen FAR 62 20 feb 1919 no info so possible

Christer

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  • 5 months later...

I found this Photo on the net , from a German Museum . It shows that Lt von Essen also had the Bar on his OF II so

probably not him either.

This leaves the suspects to:

Lt Franz Smits IR 161 ( had HHOx)

Lt Georg Röver RIR 74 ( had HHOx)

Lt Karl Giese RIR 17 (A Bavarian Rgt , probably not)

Lt Reinhard Murken RIR 79 ( HHOx ? )

Lt edvard Gesell Pio Komp 186 (HHOx ? )

Lt Friedrichssen RFA 17 (no HHOx ? )

Lt Siegfried Harms Fus Rgt 86 ( HHOx ? )

Lt Wegmann RIR 229 ( HHOx ? )

Lt Thien FAR 62 (no HHOx ? )

So I now have 9 suspects , but Three of these is less probably so 6 one with two "Hot" ones

Lt Georg Röver RIR 74 and Lt Franz Smits IR 161

The search goes on !

Christer

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  • 8 months later...

Leutn Reinhard Murken Res Inf Rgt 79 14 july 1918 no info possible

Murken, Reinhard Wilhelm Friedrich
• geb. 27.10.1885 in Wildeshausen, Großherzogtum Oldenburg
• 1.4.13-1.8.14 wissenschaftl. Hilfslehrer, 1.4.10-1.4.11 Einj.Frw. IR 79, 4.8.14 in IR 79 einberufen, 30.10.14 Lt.d.R., 3.12.18 entlassen, 1.4.19 Oberlehrer in Hameln, Studienrat.
• EK2 (31.5.15), EK1 (7.7.17), HOH3X (5.5.18), OFAK2 (29.6.15), OFAK1 (24.7.17), OV3bX (14.7.18), FKE, evtl. TrDA25 (1.4.10 Dienstalter im höheren Schuldienste Preußens)
He may be out, depending on the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen. His seniority date in the Prussian/German education service was 1 April 1910. Military time also counted, so he would have been eligible for the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen in 1935. So the question is whether he would have had a ribbon bar like this made, and whether he would have left off the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen.

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He may be out, depending on the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen. His seniority date in the Prussian/German education service was 1 April 1910. Military time also counted, so he would have been eligible for the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen in 1935. So the question is whether he would have had a ribbon bar like this made, and whether he would have left off the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen.

The Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen wasn't instituted until 1938, which leave about four years for this bar to be made for him.

Edited by saschaw
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