GERMAN M98 SAWBACK BAYONET

[Hoss]

I've never seen a picture of an early MG gunner wearing a S98aA S in the field is there any it would seem to be completely impractical.

Eric

[Chris Boonzaier]

I've never seen a picture of an early MG gunner wearing a S98aA S in the field is there any it would seem to be completely impractical.

Eric

HI,

Agree that the KS98 was more of a MG sawback.

Chris, Agreed, Marine Infantry, but pic taken in DSWA,

Best

Chris

[Chip]

Do you think that is that a brass or aluminum eagle on the front of that Tropenhelm? I thought only the III.See Batl. wore the aluminum front plate while on duty in China. The other battalions supposedly wore the brass eagle both at home and when overseas.

Chip

[Chris Dale]

Hi Chip,

I believe you and I had this very same conversation a few years back. Since then I've looked further into if the eagles were white metal or yellow metal. It seems both were worn. Most of my information about regulations is from "Tropenhelme der kaiserliche Marine, der Ostasiatischen Truppen und der Schutztruppen" by Ulrich Schiers (Published by the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Heereskunde)

What I gleaned was roughly-

"A white tropical helmet was issued in 1898 with a white metal imperial eagle superimposed over an anchor in the style worn on the Seebataillon shakos, over a small imperial cockade.

Several changes to the design of the helmet occurred over the following years. On 28th June 1900 the eagle was authorised in bronze rather than white metal, and in 1905 the helmet was officially changed to a khaki one for other ranks with officers and senior NCOs still wearing white.

These uniform orders do not however tell the full story and are often contradicted by photographic evidence.

For example, khaki helmets have been seen in photographs of the Seebataillone as early as the Boxer Rebellion of 1900. From such photographs it seems that the I. Seebataillon had khaki helmets, while the II. Seebataillon had white helmets (sometimes worn with khaki covers). The III. Seebataillon also received khaki helmets around this time, either shortly before or after the Boxer Rebellion. This theory is supported in text by Eberhard Hettler. During this period, as mentioned above photographs of officers and senior NCOs of all battalions seem to be mostly wearing white helmets.

Furthermore photographs clearly show that the Marine Expeditionskorps in South West Africa wore khaki helmets in 1904, so the regulation order of 1905 for khaki helmets seems to have been largely retrospective. Later photographs of III. Seebataillon officers and senior NCOs in China show them sometimes wearing khaki tropical helmets too. Officers were also authorised to wear a gold coloured cord around the hatband of the helmet."

Any comments welcome, I'm sure there were several variations of all types with privately purchased examples.

Cheers

Chris

[Chip]

Chris,

So you are saying that the aluminum version (rust resistant for the humid climates?) is for the white Tropenhelm and the brass version is for the tan Tropenhelm? There is a drawing in Zienert (it says circa 1914) that comes from a contemporary uniform plate that shows the white metal plate on a white helmet, but then I have a photo of an obviously tan helmet with a white metal eagle.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Could it be that Brass was the originaly introduced metal, and these were slowly replaced with aluminium?

I did not know they even used it that far back for Insignia....

[Chip]

Chris B.,

I didn't know this myself until I found one at the Stuttgart Sammlerbörse back in 1980. Before that, I had seen an aluminum Reichsadler on an Ostasien helmet in the collection at La Pompelle (Reims).

Chip

Edited December 17, 2012 by Chip

[Chris Dale]

Chris, according to "Tropenhelme der kaiserliche Marine, der Ostasiatischen Truppen und der Schutztruppen" by Ulrich Schiers the white eagle pre-dates the brass one.

Chip, you're right there certainly were exceptions to the rules. Here's an example from the German Historical Museum in Berlin of a khaki helmet with white metal eagle-

Cheers

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

Is it white metal, or aluminium?

Best

Chris

[Chris Dale]

Difficult to tell as it was in a glass display cabinet...

Cheers

Chris

[Chip]

I'm 99% sure that my example is aluminum.

Chris D. - Thanks for showing that photo. It's the first time I have seen another white metal one other than in a period photo or uniform plate. Mine appears to be more concave, that is, it is more curved, like it would be worn higher on the helmet.

I had thought that only the III See Batl. wore the white metal plate when on service in China. I don't know where that idea came from, however.

Chip

Edited December 21, 2012 by Chip

[Chris Dale]

Hi Chip,

Glad you like the photo. Here's another one on the cover of the book I previously mentioned-

That book is very highly recommended by the way.

Cheers

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

From Ebay....

[Trajan]

This is probably the Regiment - perhaps someone can help to work out the details ?

For the benefit of others, this is also shown at: http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/, where the mark is explained as: 2.Feld-Regiment, 1. Kompagnie of the Schutztruppe of South West Africa, weapon number 105

[Chris Boonzaier]

Just picked up a bayonet holder!

[Chip]

Chris,

That's quite a "bayonet holder".

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

8 hours ago, Chip said:

Chris,

That's quite a "bayonet holder".

Chip

Hi,

Indeed it is ;-)

 

Best

Chris

[Trajan]

On 04/08/2015 at 18:52, Trajan said:

For the benefit of others, this is also shown at: http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/, where the mark is explained as: 2.Feld-Regiment, 1. Kompagnie of the Schutztruppe of South West Africa, weapon number 105

Coming back to this one - is the scabbard of the bayonet that started this thread?

[Chris Boonzaier]

5 hours ago, Trajan said:

Coming back to this one - is the scabbard of the bayonet that started this thread?

Indeed it is,