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Italian Victory Medals


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  • 3 weeks later...
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Hi Gents - my latest acquisition, the Italian Type 3, Lorioli & Castelli.

I now have the Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 - and to think, three weeks ago I didn't even know there were different Types!

italytype3obv-crop.jpg

Obverse

italytype3rev-crop-1.jpg

Reverse.

Following on from my query above about small Victory figures - looking through this forum I find the Unofficial Type 1 and Repro Type 3 both have the small Victory, and possibly the Type 5 (there was a picture of the Type 5 on this thread, but it seems to have been removed). I don't know how the small vic fits in with Laslo's Standing Victory, Walking Victory and Landing Victory (and I haven't yet discovered the differences), but it doesn't seem to be mentioned in his book -I managed to get my hands on a copy through Inter-Library Loan.

So much to learn!

Bill

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Rob - your comments about the ribbons reminds me of a query or two about my Italy Type 3 vic -

italytype3obv3.jpg

First query - is the ribbon the correct Italin one?

Secondly, you can see that the ribbon has been sewn to the staffa very crudely with thick orange/red thread. There is a big knot on the reverse, and the ribbon is distorted by it. Should I remove this thread and tidy up the ribbon?

Any help gratefully received.

Bill

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Rob - your comments about the ribbons reminds me of a query or two about my Italy Type 3 vic

First query - is the ribbon the correct Italin one?

Secondly, you can see that the ribbon has been sewn to the staffa very crudely with thick orange/red thread. There is a big knot on the reverse, and the ribbon is distorted by it. Should I remove this thread and tidy up the ribbon?

Any help gratefully received.

Bill

Bill,

In answer to your questions:

1. Yes it is one of the correct ribbons. There are a couple of minor variations in the italian ribbons.

2. Whether or not you remove the thread is up to you but if you can remove it without damaging the medal or ribbon that would be preferable.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Hi Gents - my latest acquisition, the Italian Type 3, Lorioli & Castelli.

I now have the Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 - and to think, three weeks ago I didn't even know there were different Types!

So much to learn!

Bill

Bill,

There are two different varieties of the italian type 3. The differences are in the manufacturers signature on the lower right. These differences have been highlighted earlier in the thread.

Regards,

Rob

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Hi Rob - thanks for the verification of the ribbon. I think I'll have a go at removing the threads as carefully as I can. I wish I had more of the right ribbon - my Sacchini has a modern GB ribbon - not even watered. I found a link to this site http://www.worldmeda...Rib/forribb.htm but they don't list Italian and the French is OOS!

Bill

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Bill,

There are two different varieties of the italian type 3. The differences are in the manufacturers signature on the lower right. These differences have been highlighted earlier in the thread.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob - yes, thanks, I saw the posting. A long signature and a short signature. I have the long, from what I can see. I notice that there is a slight variation on mine - the 'S' in Castelli isn't elongated downwards, and the final 'LI' is rather crammed in compared with the one posted before. Is this significant?

Red face on the ribbon site - what I saw yesterday was the Victory medal of the Vichy government OOS, the French WW1 Victory medal was in stock, and still is.

Bill

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Hi Rob - yes, thanks, I saw the posting. A long signature and a short signature. I have the long, from what I can see. I notice that there is a slight variation on mine - the 'S' in Castelli isn't elongated downwards, and the final 'LI' is rather crammed in compared with the one posted before. Is this significant?

Red face on the ribbon site - what I saw yesterday was the Victory medal of the Vichy government OOS, the French WW1 Victory medal was in stock, and still is.

Bill

Hello Bill,

From what I have been able to ascertain there is no real significance on the minor difference you noted. The major difference is the change in the length of the signature itself.

Another good source for the accurate and correct ribbons for the specific vics is also the online auction sites in each country.

Regards,

Rob

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Returning to my fixation with those Italian vics for a moment - my latest E-Bay acquisition - the Lorioli & Castelli short version

LCshort05-crop.jpg

And the enlargements:

LCshort02-crop.jpg

Obverse ...

LCshort03-crop.jpg

... and reverse.

This poor old medal had had a hard life, judging from the various dings, although they are much more obvious in the enlargements than real life. Also, on the reverse some of the inscription at the bottom is missing. Is this likely to be caused by a mis-strike or worn die, or some other cause? The planchet isn't thinner here - 2mm, and the diameter is 36mm.

The ribbon is obviously a modern replacement, but the sharply defined bands of colour are different from the British replacement ribbons I've seen. Can anyone identify its likely origin?

Bill

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  • 2 weeks later...

Italian Vic's are so beautiful in design IMO! :love:

Bill,

Not sure what to say on the modern ribbon, as there are many after market ribbons out there and the patterns vary quite a bit. I see them on the Czech, Romanian, and Italian pieces the most with the British and US coming in after that.

Here's a couple of my Lorioli & Castelli examples. I don't have a "short" version but, these two are slightly different from each other as well.

Tim

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Hi Tim - very nice examples. The second Lorioli & Castelli has the same features as my 'long' version, with the bottom of the 'S' in Castelli horizontal rather than elongated down to the left like the 'S' in Orsolini, and the final 'L' and 'I' rather crammed in. The previous examples of the L&C I'd seen on this Forum are like your first example, and that's why I queried mine - now I'm really happy!

Presumably, with each manufacturer producing large numbers of these medals, they would have had several dies, and there would be variations between them - 3 in the case of L&C. The die sinker G Villa was proud enough to put his name to the Sacchini one - did he do all of the dies, or did each manufacturer employ its own die sinker?

Bill

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No worries Peter, I think many will be reposting items that were previously shown in the old thread. It's the only way to keep the conversations going, especially as newer members come in.

I understand there are a variety of official ribbons that can found on these Italian Vic's. Rob and others will have more to add but once we get up and going a bit more, I think these would make a great subject in the ribbon section!

I know Rob has answered in the old thread concerning the particular ribbons you have posted in posts # 9/10, so I'll leave it at that.

Here's one of mine (S. Johnson) that has another one of these unblended ribbons like Bill shows in post # 4, though the pattern is different yet again.

Thanks for posting. :cheers:

Tim

Edited by Tim B
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  • 2 months later...

This is my example Vic Italian version Loriol & Castelli (Official, type 2?)

With the Ribbon Italian original, in reasonable condition.

Coming directly from Italy to Brazil .. ;)

Well. I have not decided if I'll get all Italian Vic manufacturers .. Perhaps in the future ...

img348r.jpg

img352.jpg

Lambert

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Hi Lambert - a nice medal, and great photos, bringing out all the little details. You have the same long name version of the L&C that I have, with the bottom of the S of Castelli horizontal rather than sloping down to the left, and the final L and I rather crammed in at the end.

Bill

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Gents - yes, I'm back on the Italian vics again!

My latest acquisition - an Official Type 4, thanks to GMIC member Noor who sold it to me.

italy403-crop.jpg

Obverse

italy404-crop.jpg

Reverse

No maker's name, and dates MCMXIV - MCMXVIII. Planchet diameter 36mm, thickness 2mm.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...

Another example from my collection: mini group, with Italian WWI Order of the Crown.

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

Nice group. It is interesting that the war medal has what appears to be two palms with 'A' or 'L' monogram on them; instead of the miniature dated year bars. These dated year bars are quite difficult to find.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello Lambert,

Nice group. It is interesting that the war medal has what appears to be two palms with 'A' or 'L' monogram on them; instead of the miniature dated year bars. These dated year bars are quite difficult to find.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob,

Indeed, palms are "A" and "L", I believe it is Belgian, but how they got there, I do not know.

I think that the veteran was in service in Belgium (I'm an optimist) ...

or were added to the group value on Ebay. I guess we'll never know.

in fact, I really like this group.

Lambert

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