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This item is up for sale on ebay and someone asked my thoughts on it.

So I'll post my answer here: The ribbon is the type used on un-aurthorized medals. The clasps are of the type FIII & FIIIa (known fakes). Last without question the Navy never issued a medal with 4 clasps.

This medal in MHO was made up by, or for someone who is clueless about the details of a WWI "Navy" Victory Medal, or by someone who is trying to get the best bang for the buck in resale. If you asked could this medal been made up by a veteran? Yes, but he is long gone, and without his input it remains a bunch of stiff put together by an unknown person who may sold this item to this dealer.

To all, you should put your own value to this medal if interested #360838218564

Edited by johnnymac
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  • 2 weeks later...

This item is about to end on ebay today. It is for a photo of a veteran in the 1970, in his uniform wearing his 2nd Division Medal. As I see it, the medal in the "photo" is the later pin issued type, as you can see the clasps are all together (no spacers). Where as the victory medal offered is correct, but it does not match the photo. If this is his medal why would he be wearing a very late issue type Victory medal, since he is wearing all the other original medals he received?

Any thoughts on this combination?

#271382443473

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  • 1 month later...

  1. CAMBRAI (May 12, 1917 through December 4, 1917)
  2. SOMME DEFENSIVE (March 21, 1918 through April 6, 1918)
  3. LYS (April 9, 1918 through April 27, 1918)
  4. AISNE (May 27, 1918 through June 5, 1918)
  5. MONTDIDIER-NOYON (June 9, 1918 through June 18, 1918)
  6. CHAMPAGNE-MARNE (July 15, 1918 through July 18, 1918)
  7. AISNE-MARNE (July 18, 1918 through August 6, 1918)
  8. SOMME, OFFENSIVE (August 8, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  9. OISE-AISNE (August 18, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  10. YPRES-LYS (August 19, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  11. ST. MIHIEL (September 12, 1918 through September 16, 1918)
  12. MEUSE-ARGONNE (September 26, 1918 through November 11, 1918)

13. VITTORIO-VENETO (October 26, 1918 through November 11, 1918)

14. DEFENSIVE SECTOR (April 6, 1917 until the troops came home in 1920 from Siberia.

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  1. CAMBRAI (May 12, 1917 through December 4, 1917)
  2. SOMME DEFENSIVE (March 21, 1918 through April 6, 1918)
  3. LYS (April 9, 1918 through April 27, 1918)
  4. AISNE (May 27, 1918 through June 5, 1918)
  5. MONTDIDIER-NOYON (June 9, 1918 through June 18, 1918)
  6. CHAMPAGNE-MARNE (July 15, 1918 through July 18, 1918)
  7. AISNE-MARNE (July 18, 1918 through August 6, 1918)
  8. SOMME, OFFENSIVE (August 8, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  9. OISE-AISNE (August 18, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  10. YPRES-LYS (August 19, 1918 through November 11, 1918)
  11. ST. MIHIEL (September 12, 1918 through September 16, 1918)
  12. MEUSE-ARGONNE (September 26, 1918 through November 11, 1918)

13. VITTORIO-VENETO (October 26, 1918 through November 11, 1918)

14. DEFENSIVE SECTOR (April 6, 1917 until the troops came home in 1920 from Siberia.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Hi.

Resuming the collection of the Victoria Medal USA WWI. My recent example, a clip with Vic "FRANCE" "MINT condition". the clip is copper, I did not know this type of metal for this medal.

good condition .. the ribbon is like New .. Bronze color is matte, only some brands of oxidation that does not compromise the medal.

Best Regards

Lambert

Edited by lambert
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  • 2 months later...

Hello Lambert,

All

I realized this today by mail. :)
A "copy", "MADE IN FRANCE" U.S Vic
That auction was here in Brazil, was bought by a well agreeable price.

You have picked up a nice example with the French ribbon as well. The 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark is also nice and strong. Are there any other markings on the rim? I would be looking for a triangle shaped makers mark as well.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello Rob,

I looked around the rim without removing the Ribbon, but no other brand, just "MADE IN FRANCE" on the edge of the medal. This is not good?

Regards

Lambert

Edited by lambert
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Hi Lambert,

Hello Rob,

I looked around the rim without removing the Ribbon, but no other brand, just "MADE IN FRANCE" on the edge of the medal. This is not good?

Regards

Lambert

There are sometimes, but not always, extra markings on the rim in addition to the 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark. If there aren't any extra markings that is okay as well.

All in all you have a good specimen.

Regards,
Rob

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  • 1 month later...

No. All of the clasps are for "combat zone" duty only. If someone never left the US, he wouldn't have a clasp.

  • DEFENSIVE SECTOR:

-- In the First Army area, between 30 August and 11 November 1918, or in the Second Army area between October 12 and November 11, 1918.

-- At the regulating station at St Dizier and in the billeting region in connection therewith between October 31 and November 11, 1918.

-- In the area of corps, divisions, or smaller independent organizations under French, British, Belgian, or Italian commands between April 6, 1917 and November 11, 1918.

-- In any engagement not included in one of the thirteen major operations recognized by its own battle clasp.

-- In any engagement in European Russia after August 1, 1918, or in Siberia after August 15, 1918.

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No, the "Defensive Sector" clasp was for any combatant soldier not participating in a battle recognized by a specified clasp, but in any other combat operation. A soldier staying at home would´nt receive a clasp.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/Heraldry.aspx?HeraldryId=15283&CategoryId=4&grp=4&menu=Decorations%20and%20Medals&ps=24&p=0

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  • 5 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi Gents,

 

My latest acquisition is what I think is a Delande repro of the US Vic - what Jim's book classifies as Reproduction Type 3. It has verdigris on both sides - looks like it was splashed with water which wasn't dried off.

 

USDelande01_zps064df303.jpg

 

Obverse

 

USDelande02_zpsc42962b6.jpg

 

Reverse

 

And the obligatory close-ups:

 

USDelande01-crop_zpsd97ce169.jpg

 

Obverse

 

USDelande02-crop_zpsf96a833a.jpg

 

Reverse

 

And the stamp on the edge:

 

USstamp03-crop2_zpsbf30ada7.jpg

 

I can't decide whether it's a mis-shapen (or mis-struck) Delande square stamp or something else.

 

I shall try to neutralize the verdigris - the medal has already been polished!

 

All comments welcome.

 

Bill

Edited by Bilco
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Hi Bill,

 

Hi Gents,

 

My latest acquisition is what I think is a Delande repro of the US Vic - what Jim's book classifies as Reproduction Type 3. It has verdigris on both sides - looks like it was splashed with water which wasn't dried off.

 

And the stamp on the edge:

 

USstamp03-crop2_zpsbf30ada7.jpg

 

I can't decide whether it's a mis-shapen (or mis-struck) Delande square stamp or something else.

 

All comments welcome.

 

Bill

 

This example was not produced by the French firm of Delande. It was, however, produced by the French firm of Arthus-Bertrand.

 

The triangle shaped makers mark, which you have highlighted, belongs to the firm of Arthus-Bertrand. The letters 'AB' can be clearly seen on the left edge (as viewed) of the mark.

 

It is a nice example which, with some gentle cleaning and soaking of the verdigris, should come up nicely. The good condition French manufactured ribbon is a bonus as well.

Regards,
Rob

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Good Morning Bill,

I am posting two illustrations from my book, the U.S. Reproduction type-2 and U.S. Reproduction type-3.

 

Looking at your posting, it has the same thick letters as the repro type-2 in my book. and not the type-3 you believe it could be. My medal as you can see is marked "Made in France" yours, in all probability was not an export.

 

So the question then is who's the manufacturer? I can' t tell what initials are in the triangle but here is a possible name, Andrean Chobillon they used raised initials AC in a triangle, adding they did a lot of exporting of medals.

The next illustration is a reproduction type-3.  It has the M Delande stamp, the bee in the square, along with the word Bronze as shown in my book In a different format.

 

My two examples side by side and when looking at the front seem to be identical.  It's the lettering on the reverse which tells its own story.

 

Regards, Jim

 

WORLD WAR I, VICTORY MEDALS

 

http://www.amazon.com/World-War-I-Victory-Medals/dp/1497514177/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409051843&sr=1-1&keywords=james+michels

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-War-I-Victory-Medals/dp/1497514177/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408708534&sr=8-1&keywords=james+michels+victory

 

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-8368-0-96726100-1424447084.jpg 

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Hi Jim,

 

Yes, it certainly looks like your Repro Type 2 - I had rather assumed that it was by Delande, hence my mis-identification.

 

I've taken a couple of close-ups of the triangular stamp in different raking light to try to bring out the lettering:

 

 

USstamp03-crop3_zps5b62d592.jpg

 

 

usstamp010-crop2_zpsc7a4a4e1.jpg

 

It doesn't seem to match the examples of the Chobillon triangle mark I have, and the letters are something like A B C, although the layout of the stamp is different from other examples I've seen.

 

Could it be that the medal was produced before the 1930 act that required the country of origin to be shown, like the Delande example you posted?

 

Bill

 

 

 

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