An officer picture from Victorian era Dublin?

[Noor]

Hi guys,

Here is one of my next finds. Nice and old portrait of the officer (?).

Does any of you can advise me about his rank, unit, etc? Also what for would be that sash?

Nothing written on the reverse, however, maker marked to "Chancellor" 55, Lower Sackville Street, Dublin.

Any info would be great!

Regards,

Timo

[Graham Stewart]

Officer - Grenadier Guards; Buttons appear to have the reversed Royal Cypher and below that you can just make out a small grenade.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Just a thought - the sash might represent that he was 'officer of the day'. This meant he was the officer on duty for guards , inspecting dining halls etc..

What about the subaltern in charge of the Colour on Trooping the Colour - does he have a single sash - or, a double one ?

[Graham Stewart]

I think you'll find that the sash among officers in Review Order was quite common during this period, plus the Guards have dress traditions that are different from the infantry of the line.

[Graham Stewart]

Officer of the Northumberland Fusiliers, 1881-1900 in Mounted(?) Review Order, with the sash running from the left shoulder, later to be placed around the waist.

[coldstream]

Noor

Are there any rank badges on the shoulder straps? They should be very obvious on a Guards tunic. Also, in the photos it looks like the grenades are a different colour to the collar? Would you say the collar and grenades are the same colour/material?

Simon

[Noor]

Thanks guys for some clarification! Simon, unfortunately I can't make anything else out. Looks like there isn't any rank badges or the picture is made just too bad angle.

Here is my today's arrival. Photo made by Lauder Bros. 45 Lower Sackville Street, Dublin.

I presume the man on the picture is soldier? Is there any clues of the branch where he served?

[Graham Stewart]

Second photo a bit harder to determine. For my money definately a soldier, but what unit? His jacket appear to be a seven button frock coat, but I can't tell whether he has distinguishing facing's on either the collar and cuff. He certainly has no collar badges and the cuff itself appears to be the "jam-pot" type, which disappears c.1902 in favour of a pointed cuff.

However what he does have is a distinguishing shoulder strap, which is piped all of the way around and not many regiments had full piping on the strap of the frock coat, which could help narrow the unit down. Problem is we can't make out the unit title on the strap.

His belt appears to be the Slade/Wallace type, with an unusual buckle, as it doesn't appear to the general service pattern buckle.

All in all a nice period photo, but not enough detail to give us the regiment.

[Graham Stewart]

Noor

Are there any rank badges on the shoulder straps? They should be very obvious on a Guards tunic. Also, in the photos it looks like the grenades are a different colour to the collar? Would you say the collar and grenades are the same colour/material?

Simon

I did wonder why I couldn't see any on the strap and my other thought was perhaps one of the senior ranks, but wasn't certain if they only trimmed their collars with gold lace as in the line infantry. I would say both the collar badges are gold bullion and the collar, gold lace. My dad was Grenadiers and so the buttons were the give away, as I still have his.

Guards dress and distinctions are very much different from infantry of the line and to be honest I find the infantry easier to identify.

[Graham Stewart]

Just looked through some photo's of Trooping the Colour, with the Grenadiers and it appears that the senior ranks have full gold laced collars unlike their infantry counterparts, so I think he could actually be a senior rank, hence no visible rank on the shoulder straps.

[coldstream]

Graham,

When you say Senior rank do you mean Senior Officer or Senior Warrant Officer? I was initially thinking Warrant Officer due to the lack of rank on the shoulders but then his sash is on the wrong shoulder for that? He also looks a bit youthful for a Warrant Officer!!! Perhaps just a trick of the light in the photo obscuring the badges!

In the second photo the mans glengarry style cap is laying next to him on the fake rock and so we need a close up of the badge on this in order to identify him.

Simon

[Graham Stewart]

Graham,

When you say Senior rank do you mean Senior Officer or Senior Warrant Officer? I was initially thinking Warrant Officer due to the lack of rank on the shoulders but then his sash is on the wrong shoulder for that? He also looks a bit youthful for a Warrant Officer!!! Perhaps just a trick of the light in the photo obscuring the badges!

In the second photo the mans glengarry style cap is laying next to him on the fake rock and so we need a close up of the badge on this in order to identify him.

Simon

Yes - one of the senior NCO's, but as you've mentioned, the sash is on the wrong side. Of the officer ranks a subaltern would be the most junior. Sadly I lack knowledge regarding the Guards.

Didn't see the glengarry either - doh.

[Noor]

Ok guys, I do not have any knowledge regarding this area and it is enjoable read your guys discussion here! It is late but I will try to make a high resolution scan again from the cap. Maybe zoom in helps at the moment: