Prussia Herr Silber the Jeweler surely does get around!

[Triadoro]

I just stared at the computer screen when I recently read an eBay seller's assertion, that the maker of his Prussian Crown Order With Swords 3rd Class was produced by the well known imperial jeweler SILBER, because it was marked "SILBER."

Photos of this "famous" jeweler's work are attached. Of course "Silber" is silver in German, and these items marked "SILBER" are copies of originals. Not sure I needed to point that out to the forum, but some idiot bought the "SILBER" Crown Order 3rd Class on eBay for about 800 Euros.

Edited September 26, 2011 by garfordhouse

[Triadoro]

And a closeup of the mark:

[Triadoro]

And like I said, Herr Silber does get around a bit. Here, he dabbled making an Albert Order Officer's Cross currently on eBay. Bidding is over 400 Euros and counting...

[Triadoro]

And the mark on the Albert:

[Naxos]

... sad

[Triadoro]

Note that somebody "brushed" a flame over the surface of the crown medallion in the center of the Prussian Crown Order above to try to achieve an aging effect. The result is that the surface looks almost iridescent from the heat.

Of course, the flame marks on the medallion might also have been a result of an untrained craftsman heating up the jewelers rosin in the center to bond the medallions to the body of the cross.

Edited September 26, 2011 by garfordhouse

[Wild Card]

And like I said, Herr Silber does get around a bit.

Yes he did. I once owned a Braunschweig Order of Henry the Lion officer’s cross made by Herr Silber -

at least it was so marked, as in post #4 above.

[Triadoro]

I once owned a Braunschweig Order of Henry the Lion officer’s cross made by Herr Silber -

at least it was so marked, as in post #4 above.

The mark "SILBER" by itself is suspicious. If there is a legitimate makers mark, silver purity number, or other definitive indicator that it is a pre 1918 piece, then "SILBER" stamped on a piece was done for export to the United States.

Edited September 27, 2011 by garfordhouse

[Wild Card]

The mark "SILBER" by itself is suspicious. If there is a legitimate makers mark, silver purity number, or other definitive indicator that it is a pre 1918 piece, then "SILBER" stamped on a piece was done for export to the United States.

That is correct. Interestingly, this particular cross, although not marked as such, was a pre 1912 Siebricht piece. I say this because I would expect such a situation to be more likely encountered with a 1912+ Jürgens cross.

I do not not have any qualms with regard to it’s legitimacy because I sold it to a well known collector who knew more about Imperial German orders and decorations than most of us combined. Subsequent to his death, the cross was sold at auction for a very good price.

[palencia]

And the mark on the Albert:

In this thread you can see an albrechtsorden with the same mark (silber) in the needle:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/49794-saxon-albert-order/page__st__20

In " Deutsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen 1800-1945, Bd.3 Sachsen - Württemberg. J. Nimmergut ", can be seen other Saxon decorations with the mark "silber" made by G.H. Osang

[Chris Boonzaier]

I imagine that certain jewellars made stuff for local comsumption, and some for across border comsumption. If Jeweller XXX made for the Saxon Royal Familly, but also for the Piedmontese and Turkish head honchos, and them on top of that for saxon awards to Non Germans, and a Sardinian award to a Saxon Prince... then the use of stamps can take confusing turns that we cannot understand today.

best

Chris

[VtwinVince]

I agree that the PKO3mS is not an award piece, but it is definitely a period piece, and I like it.

[Eric Stahlhut]

i have a most excellent cased breast badge for the bavarian royal merit order of st. michael that is marked, 'silber'

[Yankee]

The example pieces found with the "silber" mark might be from orginal dies however they are from the 20's.

The prices should reflect post WWl even if they are of excellent quality...

Either served as replacement pieces to veterans who had their's lost or stolen or made for collectors at the time.

[saschaw]

Interresting. Any sources?

I agree the KO3X is probably a copy. But a fake?!

By the way, there are also many 1914 EKs 1st and 2nd class with a "SILBER" mark. For export to the US? Unlikely...

[Eric Stahlhut]

i thought the 'silber' designation was for articles to be exported from germany to austria???

[Triadoro]

Interresting. Any sources?

I agree the KO3X is probably a copy. But a fake?!

By the way, there are also many 1914 EKs 1st and 2nd class with a "SILBER" mark. For export to the US? Unlikely...

Is was not suggested that the KO3X is a fake, rather a "Copy" as seen in posting #1 above. Also, Weber-Arnold-Keil suggests that Osang used the stamp "SILBER" by itself to hallmark its pieces, whether for export or not.

[saschaw]

Ah okay, thanks. My fault. I just wondered why someone buying a werer's copy is an idiot.

[Stogieman]

Sigh... 25 years later and I still see people making not only this mistake..... but my all-time favorite:

"This Saxon Albert Order (insert class of your choice) Cross is marked "S" on the bottom arm for "silver", "silber", "

or maybe it's really GASP........ say it isn't so.... SCHARFFENBERG

[Deruelle]

Hi,

About the word SILBER on saxon medal, I have already put this informations on the topic about this cross. The maker of the cross is Gustav Osang who used the word Silber to sign his work., you can see it on page 256 of the Weber, Paul and Kiel's book.

Christophe

[Triadoro]

Ah okay, thanks. My fault. I just wondered why someone buying a wearer's copy is an idiot.

I do not believe AT ALL that this piece is a period-original "Spangenstück" or wearer's copy. I believe this is a much much later copy. One needs only to see how bulbous the center is, compared to the tighter, neater, flater, less protruding ones of known period originals.

That being said, I believe investing 800 Euros for such a piece is idiotic. Whether you wish to call a person engaging in idiotic behavior an "Idiot" is entirely up to you, I suppose.

Edited October 2, 2011 by garfordhouse

[Triadoro]

About the word SILBER on saxon medal, I have already put this informations on the topic about this cross. The maker of the cross is Gustav Osang who used the word Silber to sign his work., you can see it on page 256 of the Weber, Paul and Kiel's book.

Based on this statement, I must assume you are the Seller of this cross on Ebay... correct?

I noticed that you do not identify the maker as Osang in your Ebay description. Nor do you explain the significance about the mark "SILBER" as you explained it here. There is no picture of the back, just a picture of the mark "SILBER" on the needle.

Surely this information is vital to achieve the best price for your cross.