fjcp Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) pg2I translated this page although as you can see it's pretty straightforward. The header reads "1948 year rate achievment"The columns read "Month, rate % , signature" Edited February 13, 2006 by fjcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 pg3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 pg4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 pg5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Welcome to the forum, if you like Mongolian awards this is the place to be. Thanks for your contribution, very nice doc, don't hesitate to post more, or to ask any questions.As a wise man once said: "there are no stupid questions only stupid answers" Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Let me add my welcome and echo everything that Jan has said.And you have started out with a FASCINATING document. All we have to do is pool resorces for one of our members to go off and learn Mongolian so as to help us all!Again, welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Welcome and very interesting documents!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Just sharing a couple of pics of my A 61.3, Udarnik Shockworker's Badge Bronze Grade, S/N 886.Obverse:Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Same, reverse:Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) And the screwnut for this Badge.This one is quite more flat than those for A 61.1 and A 61.2 as well as for the all gilted one posted above.The diameter of the screwnuts for A 61.1 + A 61.2 + the all gilted type is 24,77mm.The diameter of this one for A 61.3 is 23,85mm.The material for this one also seems different, probably bronze or copper.Dolf Edited February 13, 2006 by Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 After protracted consultation among Battushig, Jan, and myself in Ulanbaatar, we have reached the conclusion that we are looking at but two varieties of these badges. There is a silver mirror reverse badge with engraved serial number (current A 51.1 and A 51.2) that is so lightly gilded on the obverse that the gilt easily wears off or even simply evaporates entirely. There is also a silvered bronze flatback version with stamped serial number (current A 51.3), although here, too, the coating is fairly transient and is often badly worn or gone alltogether. Thus, rather than there being three "classes", as it might seem from the current classification, we have a single-class badge in two (chronological?) varieties.Please take a look at your collection and see if this makes sense.This means we are looking at a:Type 1 - mirror reverse - Low 206/High 5009Type 2 - flatback - Low 269/High 503The type 2 remains a fairly uncommon item, although we have no clear guess on which is the older badge. Reliable documented sets might help, but what documents carry badge numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 well I finally got one and it might look familiar...Bronze udarnik 503...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 rev. #503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 A new low for the type 2, silvered bronze, flatback, 203. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Gaumann Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 After protracted consultation among Battushig, Jan, and myself in Ulanbaatar, we have reached the conclusion that we are looking at but two varieties of these badges. There is a silver mirror reverse badge with engraved serial number...There is also a silvered bronze flatback version with stamped serial number... Thus, rather than there being three "classes", as it might seem from the current classification, we have a single-class badge in two (chronological?) varieties.This means we are looking at a:Type 1 - mirror reverse - Low 206/High 5009Type 2 - flatback - Low 269/High 503The type 2 remains a fairly uncommon item, although we have no clear guess on which is the older badge. Any updates on the flatback vs. mirror reverse situation?The reason I ask is I like these awards and may aquire one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Any updates on the flatback vs. mirror reverse situation?The reason I ask is I like these awards and may aquire one.Sorry . . . "updates" . . . in what sense? Serial number ranges? I don't think so, but shall check.To me, the flatbacks seem merely to be a manufacturing variety "sub-cluster" within a single-class serial numbered backs ranging from an observed 206 to 5009.Those who need more varieties to exist may disagree. Have discussed this with Battushig, and he agrees, by the way; so, if I am wrong, I am wrong in good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Gaumann Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Sorry . . . "updates" . . . in what sense? Serial number ranges? I don't think so, but shall check.Hi Ed, thanks for taking the time to spread so much knowledge around. Your helpfulness is much appreciated.What I was wondering is pretty general, I guess.From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is there was once thought to be three classes of this award, in Gold, Silver and either Bronze &/or Copper. And at that point there were were two subvariations: mirror & flat reverses. Conventional thinking at that time, at least to me, leans towards mirror reverses being older (and of possibly) Soviet manufacture.But, as I read further in this thread, collectors are now of the opinion that there is only one class of this award and that the flatback (may) predate the mirror reverse.But then again, earlier images and opinions here seem to indicate fully gilded, partially gilded and ungilded-silver grades of the award (in addition to the "kriegsmetall" grade). Not only that but I see one or two very well-respected dealers referring to multiple grades of this award on their sales page.I'm just trying to get a handle on things as I surf the e-channel and consider spending money that really should be spent on things more immediate. Again, thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Hi Eric,Let me take my best shot at surveying the evolution of our knowdge on these. Most of this evolution, by the way, can be traced in this very thread.1- Battushig published his excellent book showing separate "gilt", "silver", and "bronze" badges. Not quite "classes" and, while he avoided that word consciously, most read "classes" into this organization. (He now admits he was uncomfortable with these three types even at the time.)2- As we looked at serial number ranges, there was no distinction between the "gilt" and "silver" and the "bronze" was just a single production run (different manufacturer?) of maybe 300 badges in the middle of a coherent "gilt/silver" series.3- As we looked most closely at the badges that had come to live with us, we saw clearly that there was a range of manufacturing standards and quality but that there was no real difference between "gilt" and "silver" badges (explaining why it was sometimes almost impossible to place particular specimens as either/or.4- As we looked at award certificates we noted that no distinction as to the metal was being made.5- Last summer, as I said above:After protracted consultation among Battushig, Jan, and myself in Ulanbaatar, we have reached the conclusion that we are looking at but two varieties of these badges. There is a silver mirror reverse badge with engraved serial number (current A 51.1 and A 51.2) that is so lightly gilded on the obverse that the gilt easily wears off or even simply evaporates entirely. There is also a silvered bronze flatback version with stamped serial number (current A 51.3), although here, too, the coating is fairly transient and is often badly worn or gone alltogether. Thus, rather than there being three "classes", as it might seem from the current classification, we have a single-class badge in two (chronological?) varieties.6- My notes on current observed serial number ranges have not evolved beyond what is shown a few posts above, though I must admit I have not been seeking new datapoints out aggressively.Battushig's book is an extraordinary first step and is something anyone with even the slightest interest in Mongolia or Mongolian awards must have. But it is only a first step. What has been done collectively on this forum (though it does seem regrettably dead lately and I often despair) has expanded our knowledge beyond Battushig in many areas and there is still much more to learn.Most dealers are uninterested in knowledge of any sort except to derive a name (however fraudulent) to stick on a piece they have for sale. Likewise, most dealers don't read this forum, at all or carefully. Is that good or bad?Hope this helps in some way? Edited December 6, 2006 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Gaumann Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 What has been done collectively on this forum (though it does seem regrettably dead lately and I often despair)Don't despair, I wander through here on a semi-regular basis and absorb with what few braincells I have left bits and pieces of knowledge.... Had I a bigger budget and more time I would try and contribute something substantial to the collecting field but for now it's just silly questions and observations.Hope this helps in some way?It does indeed. My sincere thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I agree, do not despair, Ed. I also appreciate your effort and check all of your new posts. This forum is going to be the ultimative reference for mongolian badges and probably for orders and medals too.Keep up the great work Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Updating my numbers database... now also trying to date Udarnik. Below number seems to come clear from one document in this thread.Udarnik 2,203 31/10/1947Vatjan / FJCP - could you have a very close look at the documents you posted and see if equally there is a number which probably (?) correlates to an Udarnik and below it a date.FJCP - the document you showed, it belonged to the badge you posted right before or did you acquire them seperately? The document APPEARS to refer to Udarnik 366... and then a date. Am I correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Excerpted from Bob's really useful master list of serial numbers and dates of award (see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9917 and THANKS, BOB! ), here is the only known data point for the Udarnik Badge (A61):2,203 31/10/1947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjcp Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 FJCP - the document you showed, it belonged to the badge you posted right before or did you acquire them seperately? The document APPEARS to refer to Udarnik 366... and then a date. Am I correct?Hi there Bob,The document in question isn't actually an award document.The document is actually a record of the amount of work done by the man. The number (366) may refer to a worker number or something, but not to an award as such.Other than the fact that I got them together there is no guarantee that the two belong together.I believe from a cursory look that the last few pages of the document list the requirements/criteria for receiving an udarnik badge and also perhaps the benefits once it's awarded.I might be wrong but I'll let you guys know once I've got some of the translating done.CheersJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) Here pic of a huge document. Unfortunately not a number on the doc which could be used to tie it back to the badge.Didn't fit on the scanner and I was lazy.Now updated with interior. Edited January 20, 2007 by Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Interior scans??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now