Prussia Pour Le Merite on Ebay

[redeagleorder]

Hi all,

I found this Pour Le Merite on Ebay. The seller says its original, but i am a bit sceptical. Not having much experience, I would like some help. For one thing, although at the time of writing it has 10 bids, it is only priced at 101 euro. What would be the likely price for a Pour Le Merite. He also says it is hallmarked with a 936 mark as well as the letters SW, which i am not sure what they stand for. The nearest match I can find is my Iron Cross 2nd class, which was made by Sy and Wagner. He also gives a weight of 23 grams, which does seem a little light. As I already said, I'm only sixteen and have only been collecting for two years.

[redeagleorder]

And some pics of the back:

[redeagleorder]

Sorry, forgot to mention that he .

Sorry, forgot to mention that he states that the 936 mark is on the clasp, and that an 800 mark is on the jump ring.

[Naxos]

Hello, the PLM you are showing is a poor copy - the value is around 30 to 40 Euro.

[saschaw]

A good one, an original cross awarded in WW1, silver gilt issue from 1917/1917, would cost around 10,000.- to 15,000 Euro today. An older, ral gold one even more.

This one is typical eBay stuff. I'm not sure if a real plm ever was offered on eBay.

:unsure:

[WRANGEL]

Hi Redeagle,

I agree with both Naxos and Saschaw, this is a fake, not even a chance of being a replacement order.

Note how artistically the plm has been displayed in the photos. On the 1st photo you will see a small ek1 on top, on another photos you have the name of hindenburg who appears, all these are tricks to prevent the potential buyer to concentrate on one thing: the plm itself. Its a bit like this type of snake (can't remember the name) who swings the end of his tail to attrack birds. The birds are attracted they think its a worm and that they are going to have a nice lunch, but the result is that they are the one that get swallowed by the snake. So becareful with photos !

The price for a real plm is difficult to evalue as so few exemples show up in auctions, but I think the cost for a WWI cross is around 15.000 euros (even more if you have a real provenance or an awarding document).

I would really encourage you to buy books and sales catalogues as well as visit military museums where you will be able to see plm. It well help you a lot the day you will decide to buy a plm. Unfortunately there isn't as many books on the plm as on the ek. You should try get a copy of "The History of the Prussian Pour le Merite" by William Hamelman, and Denis Martin, 3 volumes, Verlag Sammlerfreund.

Cheers

Bill

[redeagleorder]

Thanks a lot for all your advice. I will try to lay my hands on any informative books/articles i can on german medals. However, with respect to medal shows, i live in Malta, which due to various reasons (including small size and having been a british possession in both World Wars), does not host any medal fairs/shows, especially not German ones!

By the way, is there any indication apart from price that this is a fake, so if i come across any more examples i will be able to tell for myself?

Once again, thanks for your help. I feel soory for those who bid on it and are expecting the real thing (unless their willing to pay so much for a fake)

[saschaw]

By the way, is there any indication apart from price that this is a fake, so if i come across any more examples i will be able to tell for myself?

The overall quality is very poor, I don't know these marks from good ones and so on.

There's a golden rule: study originals, not the fakes. Once you know all good variations (and there are some, with an order awarded for almost 200 years!) a fake cannot fool you anymore.

In case you don't know it by now: The site of Andreas, who's a member here, too, might be helpfull: www.medalnet.net

PS: I sent you a PM.

[Deruelle]

Hi,

Here is one link with POur le Mérite books for sale

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/52495-pour-le-merite-books-for-sale/page__gopid__479040

Christophe

[redeagleorder]

Thanks to both of you. I'll give those books a good look.

Matthew

[Daniel Cole]

This is the book you should try to get:

Prussian Blue - A History of the Order Pour Le Merite , by Steven Privitera

Its great.,

[David_Blanchard]

Hello,

Could any one advise where I could find citations for PLM won in 1918- do they exist?

David