JapanX Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Rich I guess your idea is Clouds is a military order. Our military men have done some nice civil job. So they should get some awards. But since they are military men they will get clouds and not pillars . Correct? Or last sentence should be read as ... ... ... Of course merit awards and not longevity awards - that's why clouds and not pillars. Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuoka Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes, you are right Nick. I cannot figure it out. We need some documentary evidence to clear things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuoka Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 A little info about the ratio of RS to ST. UPPER CLASSES (1st to 4th Classes) Up to 1936, RS: 7,622 awards. ST: 21,459 awards. LOWER CLASSES (5th to 8th Classes) Up to 1936, RS: 800,891 awards. ST: 632,275 awards. Source: History of Medals by Naka Kaoru (1973) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 This is really interesting info Rich! Now we have some empirical evidence for explanation of clouds quantitative dominance. Thanks a lot!!! Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Rich, Could the scarcity of Pillars be attributable to it being used akin to the Sacred Treasure and therefore often being used as a long service award ? Given the short timeframe of Manchuria, there would have been more awards for "merit" in setting the place up than there would have been for long service. What are your views ? Cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fukuoka Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Paul, Makes sense to me, but to be honest, I really don't know. I'd like to dig around in my books a bit more and see if I can find any relevant information. (However, the winter vacation has just ended, and the long days of work have begun again...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ok. Let’s go back to the basics. Let’s start from the very beginning. So there were rumors. Rumors about late pillars made by Manchukuo Mint. So we were going in. To investigate. To explore this mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Here is the list of our recent finds. 1) there are indeed some variations in manufacturing quality of pillars, but the only stable feature of allegedly “late-made-in-Manchukuo” pillars is more glassy, transparent enamel in central octahedron 2) indeed there was such thing as Manchukuo Mint 3) we have information that Manchukuo Mint started making orders in lower classes “on its own” no sooner than in 1943 4) we don’t have strict definition for “lower classes” 5) we know exact number of pillars and clouds manufactured by Japan Mint That’s all so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now our “explorer wish list” 1) does the only stable feature of allegedly “late-made-in-Manchukuo” pillars (glassier, transparent enamel in central octahedron) observed in two higher classes of pillars of the state? 2) how about some late auspicious clouds? Do they exist? Today we will take care about the first one. Let’s go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ok. For appetizer we will look at this two 2nd class breast stars. Typical high japanese quality. The only difference is in reverses – polished/unpolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Obverses Edited January 21, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Reverses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Obviously these should be allegedly “early” pieces. Actually the color of blue enamel in central octahedrons of different “early” 2nd classes varies. Here comes an interesting compilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Compilation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shades of blue enamel are slightly different, but they are non-transparent… Breast star after breast star … And no signs of glassy, transparent blue enamel… I was about to give up and then suddenly man-made-miracle. The “late” one was found!!! Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 “Late” star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Unfortunately there was no photo of reverse. Of course the quality of picture is very low, but I think the glassy blue enamel is visible. You don’t think so? It is doubtful? Well thanks to my friends (and our colleagues ) we have pictures (this time high quality pictures I must add) of another such “late” star. Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Another “late” star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Any doubts this time? If so, then allow me to show you this compilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think it’s obvious that we observe same old “glassier, transparent enamel in central octahedron” pattern. And another exhibit – this time comparison of central octahedrons of two breast stars. One star is classical “early” breast star with polished reverse and another is late one (we just saw it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Octahedrons Edited January 21, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 Reverses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 So now we have no doubts about the actual class distribution of this main stable feature of “late” pillars. Wait buster!!! What about one more class!? 1st class?! Well, let me remind you that the order of pillars of the state has very interesting feature – the badge for 1st class has the exact same size (63 mm approximately) as badge for 3rd class. So it will be quite natural to assume, that if we observe “late” features in case of 3rd classes, then these “late” features will be observed in case of 1st classes as well. But of course I made some inquiries. Well all three 1st class badges that I have a chance to examine had “early” features. Let me show you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Let’s take a look at these two beauties. Both marked M. Both have polished reverses. Actually I have some doubts about piece on the left – it could be 3rd class badge. Edited January 21, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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