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Paul L Murphy

Applying the Golden Kite dating classification - a question for JapanX

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I am looking back through some old photos of the 4th and 5th class Golden Kite in wear and trying to match up the birds with the classification used in Nick's earlier post. I realise the quality of the attached photo is a bit iffy so apologies in advance but it seems to match up to the type of kite that is classified as early Taisho. Am I correct ?

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Yes, it looks like Taisho piece to me.

At least it should Taisho according to my classification ;)

Let me guess - the man at the photo get his kite certainly not during Taisho period?

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This Golden Kite was awarded for the 1894-95 Sino Japanese War, which is this officer's only military campaign.

On the basis of what evidence did you classify this shape of kite as a Taisho piece ?

Edited by Paul L Murphy

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This Golden Kite was awarded for the 1894-95 Sino Japanese War, which is this officer's only military campaign.

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It is known for a fact? Or just because he had one and only campaign medal?

Is the date when this photo was taken is known?

Well, sometimes golden kites could be issued for diplomat/intelligence work.

On the basis of what evidence did you classify this shape of kite as a Taisho piece?

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You know my reasons ;) I stated them in the classification thread.

Well. If the date of the photo is known and it is before 1914, then it is some strange looking kite (at least by photo) for 1895 kite.

That's for sure. So either my attribution of this type to Taisho period is wrong or this is kite that I've never seen before and it came from Meiji period. I wonder what rivets this kite had... :)

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By the way Paul, are you sure about 1895?

The medal under the epaulet looks like 14-15 or 14-20, but certainly not 1895 medal (it has specific form ;))

:lol:

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I don't know, that looks like the 1894-95 campaign medal to me....

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Come on!

By this photo even kite couldn't be identified with 100% accuracy (although It still looks like type 5a? or 5b?).

Why you are so certain?

Don't you think that upper part of medal looks too round for 1895?

But maybe it's just me and you are right.

What we really need is a close-up of this medal.

Edited by JapanX

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On the basis of what evidence did you classify this shape of kite as a Taisho piece ?

Here you can find your answer

It leans against two pillars: type 1 and type 7. I have no doubt about accuracy of dating these two types (peremptory tone :) ). Types 2-6 represent the main problem. Their creation has put very small time interval which borders are between 10 and 20 years. Without the accurate information in this interval my classification of these types is as good, as yours.

Hope you will like this one ;)

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I don't know, that looks like the 1894-95 campaign medal to me....

On second (third, forth and firth :)) look you are right. This is indeed 1895 medal.

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Well I gotta tell you – this photo sure makes my attribution disputable.

That’s why I decided to look through my photo library and try to attribute this or that piece.

Not an easy task – that is for sure.

Most photos don’t permit more or less accurate attribution (most of them look like type 5 and 6 :lol: – even 3rd classes!)

Here comes two good examples.

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I think this is type 1 (in classification for 3rd classes). At least from these photos ;)

Nope. I don’t think that it is good idea to use these pictures as 100% solid material for attribution. Because of visual perception issues…

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Ok. So I was browsing my scan library and suddenly something interesting happened.

I found scan of this photo.

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Nice isn’t it?

Another man with kite and only one campaign medal and this medal is 1895 campaign medal!

Could you believe this?

Let’s take a close look at this medal bar.

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Well. This kite looks like type 2 (or 3? or 6? :lol:)

As I said it’s not easy to determine …

I made this photo compilation for you dear Paul.

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Hope it will help you, because it didn’t help me :lol:

Anyway it’s nice that you made a photo comment (at last!) about my kite classification.

Although your timing for this comment looks kinda strange :lol:

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Hope it will help you, because it didn’t help me :lol:

Anyway it’s nice that you made a photo comment (at last!) about my kite classification.

Although your timing for this comment looks kinda strange :lol:

Nick,

The timing of my comments is only dicatated by when I can get time away from work and family to indulge my hobbies ! Recently work has been taking up far too much time so hobbies have suffered as a result.

The photo montage that you did would suggest that neither of the Kites are the Type 1 in your classification, although I accept it is hard to be definite with small photos like this. Hence, given that they both appear to be awards for 1894-95 (since the officer's in question have no war medal other than that one) the evidence thus far does not support the classification.

Where did you get the photo of the Kite you used to illustrate your Type 1 and what makes you think that it was from the Meiji period ?

Paul

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The photo montage that you did would suggest that neither of the Kites are the Type 1 in your classification ...

These photos are very unrelieble material…

It’s all about angles.

Allow me to show you dear colleagues the following compilations and you will see that.

The source of Paul`s confiedence is obvious :)

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