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Gentlemen,

I recently came across this 7er medal bar for sale. The Lubeck Hanseatic Cross caught my eye of course.;)

Then I saw the back. :hitler: It does not look right to me. There is something in the item description stating that the pin/clasp were replaced but the medals and ribbons are original.

I am inclined to think that this medal bar has been "made up" of original awards. What do you think?

Best wishes

Matt

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I think your instincts are right. This seems like a highly incredible grouping of EK2-equilivant, EM awards from FIVE different states.

And I would....everyone say it together with me if you know what I'm going to say next....."hit it with a black light". Although, I bet you don't have it in front of you, and it isn't a foolproof panacea in detecting fakes. But anyone that used this, atypical hanging system might not have taken the care in choosing the cloth materials.

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I saw that action too - when I saw the hook, it was "no go" for me. Only now I realize the combination is strange and highly unlikely too. Too good to be true. Are the medals all original? Lubeck cross'es center disc is a bit rotated, 5 minutes past noon - should be that normal?

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I agree with you both, especially when I look at the precedence of the awards. I would have thoguth that the brunswick cross would be the near the front due to the fact that brunswick is the biggest state (apart from Prussia) in this grouping.

Regards

Matthew

Hi Matthew,

I find this interesting. I had always thought medals were mounted in the order received. Just another thing to look out for, my thanks.

Best wishes

Matt

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Hi Matthew,

I find this interesting. I had always thought medals were mounted in the order received. Just another thing to look out for, my thanks.

Best wishes

Matt

Hi Matthew,

There are often exceptions to what I said above, such as wearing them in the order given to the recipient, as you said. However, I believe that most soldiers wore them by the size of the state. For example, why is the iron cross nearly always on the far left, if not because Prussia was the biggest and most important state? And where there are bavarian awards they are nearly always exactly behind prussian ones. Then saxon, wurttemberg and so on. In fact, since you collect medal bars with hanseatic crosses (which by the way I really like) I think you'll find them near the end of the medal bar, since the free cities were the least important of all the states.

Regards,

Matthew

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Hi Matthew,

There are often exceptions to what I said above, such as wearing them in the order given to the recipient, as you said. However, I believe that most soldiers wore them by the size of the state. For example, why is the iron cross nearly always on the far left, if not because Prussia was the biggest and most important state? And where there are bavarian awards they are nearly always exactly behind prussian ones. Then saxon, wurttemberg and so on. In fact, since you collect medal bars with hanseatic crosses (which by the way I really like) I think you'll find them near the end of the medal bar, since the free cities were the least important of all the states.

Regards,

Matthew

Size of the state is not the same as importance of the state. Hamburg was the 7th largest state in the Empire, larger than all but the four kingdoms and two of the grand duchies. Bremen was the 13th laregst. Lübeck, while small, was still larger than Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Waldeck, and Schaumburg-Lippe. Lübeck was also larger than each of the Schwarzburg principalities, although they are usually counted together.

The Iron Cross always comes first because Prussian regulations placed it first, and Prussian regulations covered every state except Bavaria and Saxony. And Bavarian and Saxon regulations placed the Iron Cross first after their own war decorations.

After that, other state awards came in different orders, often by the choice of the wearer. They were ordered by date of award, by type of award (orders, then crosses, then medals, for example), and by the status of the state which awarded them. I think this is what you mean by importance, that is, kingdoms, then grand duchies, then duchies, then principalities, and then Hanseatic cities.

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