Emanuel Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Maybe I'm too naive, but I would like to see this ebay badge in a different light (literally), before judging... The spots on the enamel concern me the most, and would make me cautious, but again, better pictures would be good. As for Singapore, Emanuel you should check the first post in this topic... Cheers! Drugo Cheers drugo, I saw the first topic, my comment was actually an Irony, an emotional expression used in my country from some 2.500 years ago. And actually my point is that from a very good original piece, someone made over there a copy, and this is not the only copy as you can see from the net all around. What is happening and what I am saying is that it's a shame, these collectibles to end up like German WWII badges and orders that are so heavy copied, that push away the collectors all around the world. Do you know how many collectors have gone away due this fact? "There are too many copies, I give up, I Cannot follow anymore" ,how many times I listen to it and read it in forums,I am more than sure you will agree in this. In that order,would be really shame the Yugoslavian orders of Socialist period end up like this in the same way, because of some greedy people and ruthless traders. Then the collectible community will say that all are piece of junk and worthless for collectors due heavy copy, and I am sure, this is the last you wish to see for these nice collectible pieces of your country ( Ex or not). I use Irony for them, so don't kick it back to me please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paja Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) To be honest this is the first time I see copy of that quality... Some details did look suspicious but it could have fooled me, thanks for heads-up. Here's one usual low-quality replica. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-95674800-1424528615.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-29874600-1424528617.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-73320500-1424528618.jpg Edited February 21, 2015 by paja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Actually that badge for sale is mine. It's certainly not a copy - take a look at the newer photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrejm75 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 As Paja mentioned in post 21 these were instituted in 1984 and considering that JNA disbanded in 1992 that's 8 years that these badges were awarded- twice a year. That's a very rare badge indeed as far as I can tell, but they are all over the various dealer sites. I would assume that majority of these gold badges were never awarded but were produced and stored somewhere in the IKOM safes. Also, does anyone have a photo of any members of JNA wearing one of these badges? The sheer number of these all over the internet is astounding but I am yet to see one of the being worn. I fully agree with Emanuel- I stopped collecting Soviet orders and medals years ago after I realized that 90 % of the stock on the market were well made fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thank you all for the information about this badge. I got mine from the owner, so I'm assuming it's real. If other badges came from original Ikom stock that would make them originals as well. Andre, can you link us to some dealer sites selling this gold badge? I've not found any myself even though I have been looking on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drugo Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Emanuel I am sorry but I really don't understand your long comment, nor what I am supposedly "kicking back". I made one single point and one comment. The point: IMHO, I am not sure if the badge offered on ebay is a fake or not. I said my uncertainty could be naive, meaning this is a fake and I am too much of a believer, I don't know. I don't care if it is original or fake but for the sake of knowledge, because a) it is not mine, and b) in any case I'm definitely not going to bid at such a crazy price, no matter the rarity (sorry achern ). The comment: I didn't realise you were ironic talking about Singapore, and frankly I still don't get it (sorry, I haven't been probably trained for 2500 years in it ). The only way I understand it now is that you meant that even the first one posted by achern in post #1, back in 2012, is a fake? In that case, you'd be the first one here to state that and I am truly interested in hearing your opinion about why is that, because I am a yugo collector but I am more than ignorant when it comes to these specific badges, especially the golden ones, and I have much to learn! Thank you. If on the contrary the first one is solid and the eBay one is not (BTW, it is indeed extraordinary that the same person has two of these rare birds in his hands, no matter the country of origin), I would still not get your ironic point. And yes, fakes are ruining the fun of this hobby, as much as prima donnas the pleasure of a constructive exchange of minds and knowledge. And I know you all have to share and teach me a lot, here. Thank you, Filip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Guys, I keep hearing about copies of this gold badge being widely available, but try as I might I can't seem to find any for sale anywhere. Can someone post the links of these dealers who are selling the gold badges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Hi, I will not discuss the level of the price for this certain piece, I am and always was fair with the market, frankly ,I really do not know his objective value. For such a piece,I believe someone will pay how much he wishes to have and posses such a rare badge.Up to the buyer. About the first ,initial pictures on Ebay, I think, and most of the members will agree here, were really crapy, badge didn't looked solid gold, enamel looks very very bad in all his colors ( Red,white,especially the blue enamel with as we say, pores...). Now why someone uploads such very bad pictures to sell such a badge, is beyond my logic, but let it be, if it is an indentical from the one we see on page one and not the same, only the sellers know to verify us for it. What I am saying with certainty is that, despite the fact that I never have indeed one in my hands, and I cannot judge from some pictures and ONLY such a badge, I am just saying, why on earth they made a badge that even the common, well wide spread around, and awarded to Paratroopers, Officers, NCO's and Soldiers in Nis,the Silver version for Paratroopes and Instructors, have better enamel in all 3 colors than this one under the pictures we saw on Ebay? And from those,I have see many of them and personally know many Paratroopers of the 63rd Brigade.... Edited February 22, 2015 by Emanuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Not sure what Emanuel is really trying to say here, but anyway here are photos of two badges I am intending to let go, and what better place than ebay, since it has the widest audience. As to why I have so many rare badges, well, I collect rare badges, so therefore I tend to find them. However, after all that has been said about seeing so many of these gold Yugo badges in dealer sites, still nobody has offered any links to show where they are. After a lot of searching, I still have not managed to find any. Hopefully someone will show some evidence. Here are the photos. One is of the 1950s 1st Class instructor badge, not in great condition, definitely well-used. The other is the mint 18K gold badge. I don't think it is a copy, unless the former owner was presented a fake by the air force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paja Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Much has been said about the badge since the last time I wrote in this topic. I started the discussion saying that the first badge looks nicer perhaps because of the photo or light, and that turned out to be the case here. Also now that you have posted better photos I can see that the badge on ebay is actually the same as the one I mentioned before (one seen of some "regional" forum with two hallmarks in the bottom and one above). I tried to remember where I found photos of it but I really don't have a clue nor is that important. About the number of the badges that appeared on sale, honestly this is the second time I see golden parachute badge. But I've heard stories we all heard many times before that someone somewhere allegedly found a stash of badges, amongst them even couple of golden ones. According to the story they were then sold to Belgrade dealers. How much of that story is true I really don't know but I will mention this, I saw with my own eyes two golden pilot badges (not rare as parachute ones but still pretty rare and expensive) being offered by the same seller in the last couple of months and they both looked OK to me. Edited February 22, 2015 by paja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks Paja. I see that you and Emanuel have been doing some good work on bringing to attention some fake badges in this area of collecting. I hope that you guys will find more information about these gold Yugo badges as well. This is not my area of expertise as I collect parachute badges from every country and I cannot possibly be expert in all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paja Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 You're welcome, I hope I didn't offend you in any way with my previous posts. Considering that you have two golden parachutists in your possession and I never even held one in my hands you must know more about them than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paja Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 About the early parachute instructors' badge, I read somewhere that they were instituted in 1949. I've seen I class (25 - 30) and II class (10 - 15), they are usually is similar shape. I think production material was not of great quality. Some have IKOM screw nut like yours others are with ZNB nuts. Here are photos of 2nd class badge from last year's auction. It got sold for around 170 Euros. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-99158000-1424633052.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-32220600-1424633056.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paja Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 And here's one I class with ZNB screw nut, price for this one was around 200. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-73304700-1424633315.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-98868500-1424633318.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drugo Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 [...]I am just saying, why on earth they made a badge that even the common, well wide spread around, and awarded to Paratroopers, Officers, NCO's and Soldiers in Nis,the Silver version for Paratroopes and Instructors, have better enamel in all 3 colors than this one under the pictures we saw on Ebay? It's a good point. It might have to do with the years of production of the standard silver and the golden ones? Considering that the latter were produced only in late 1980's, production quality in those years was fastly declining, we know it from all other orders and decorations produced at that time. It would be nice to know when was actually the production of silver badges interrupted? It would be very interesting if we find out that it was before they started producing the gold ones! Could it be the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achern Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I've got the 1949 version for sale too, if anyone is interested. I wonder how many of these were made. The quality is not quite as good as the Soviet badges. And here's one I class with ZNB screw nut, price for this one was around 200.http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-73304700-1424633315.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-7937-0-98868500-1424633318.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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