Brian Wolfe Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hello Everyone, I don't post much in this section which is strange as I am a collector and "student" of Japanese culture and have been for probably close to 40 years. I guess I am a closet collector of Japanese items. Someday I'll post the whole collection but for now I wanted to show the members a seven medal group I purchased last Sunday from a private museum that is raising funs in order to purchase a new location for their displays. For the members who might visit here I will list the medals in the group starting from the viewer's left to right. Allied Victory Medal 1914-20 War Medal Taisho Enthronement Medal Showa Enthronement Medal China Incident Medal 2600th National Anniversary Medal Great East Asia War Medal The fellow I purchased this from has only a few Japanese items, concentrating mainly on British Empire. I also purched several British medals and other items which pretty well cleaned out my collecting bank account, but as any collector knows, when it comes to a choice of money in the bank or medals in the collection, medals always win hands down. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi Brian, will it be possible for you to post pictures of reverse and close up of obverse? Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi Nick, I can get a little closer but one of the problems I have been experiencing is that when the image is "clicked on" to enlarge it the picture produced is not very much larger than the original in the post. Most of the time this is not a problem unless you want a much larger photo for viewing. When I got this group the tabs on the mount's back were bent so I straightened them and secured the medals to the tabs with some black thread to stop them from rubbing together. Even though my collection is housed in drawers the opening and closing of the drawers does cause movement of unsecured medals. I will use two posts, one for the obverse and one for the reverse. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Here is the reverse. What drew me to this group was the two WWI medals, the Japanese involvement in the First World War is not well known in this part of the world and many you might mention it to would think that they had no involvement at all Regards Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Here is the reverse. Thanks Brian! Looks like the hanger is marked. Nice touch Was some exiting story sold together with the bar? Regards, Nick P.S. Ain't it strange - post war veteran replica of Great East Asia War Medal looks more shabby than China Incident Medal and 2600th National Anniversary Medal? Edited August 19, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Thanks Brian! Looks like the hanger is marked. Nice touch Was some exiting story sold along with the bar? Regards, Nick P.S. Ain't it strange - post war veteran replica of Great East Asia War Medal looks more shabby than China Incident Medal and 2600th National Anniversary Medal? Hi Nick, Sorry no exciting story just a straight purchase. I really get sick of the usual stories on places like eBay about the item coming from a dead officer after so-and-so's uncle shot him. In Canada we don't get that "fluff and stuff" from sellers or dealers. Just as well as that only impresses beginners and younger collectors. The hanger is indeed marked and as soon as I purchase a macro lens for the camera I will revisit this post and show the mark, which is quite clear, in an extreme close up. As to the shabby appearance of the GEAW medal I would have to assume this is due as much to the material from which they were made, being a gray tin alloy, than anything else. I have no idea what the ones selling on eBay are made from and though they look mint I suspect they are newly made...I could be wrong but they do look too good to be anything but. If I had to guess I'd say the soldier added the 2600th National Anniversary Medal when he purchased the 7 place bar. I've seen this before where a medal issued was not added to a bar for quite some time for a variety of reasons. I have no way to know if the GEAW medal was one of the surviving initial 10,000 struck or one from a later striking. From the general look of the ribbon as well as the group itself I would say it was added to the group quite a long time ago. Certainly not added by the dealer, a fellow I know quite well. I should add that the China Incident Medal is quite worn through repeated polishing so it looks to be in better shape in the photo than it really is. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Sorry no exciting story just a straight purchase. I really get sick of the usual stories on places like eBay about the item coming from a dead officer after so-and-so's uncle shot him. Bummer... I really like these I have no way to know if the GEAW medal was one of the surviving initial 10,000 struck or one from a later striking. From these photos it is impossible to say anything with confidence. That's why I asked for close ups of reverse and obverse... Actually a nice close up of reverse inscription will do it Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I would have to assume this is due as much to the material from which they were made, being a gray tin alloy ... All original pieces were made from pewter (80-90 percent tin + 10-20 percent lead + maybe a pinch of copper or antimony ) Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi Nick, Thanks for the information. I must say that is was kind of the Japanese to reverse the wording on the bar (or clasp) on the post war strikings. A bit like denatzifacation of the iron cross etc. Not "exactly" like the original but close enough to get around a regulation perhaps. This makes the slight possibility of finding an original quote simple, unless someone fakes the medal complete with the correct word order. I have wanted one of these medals for some time and I always like my Japanese medals in their original box. However, the ones available all look to have been "made yesterday" for my likening so I have "passed" on any I've run onto. What I wanted was a medal I was confident had been awarded to a veteran and not one that had come from "stores" of medals in reserve or made for the collector's market. When I saw this group the first thing that stood out to me was the Allied Victory medal and then I noticed the Great East Asia War Medal. I had memorized the position of the last kanji word so I knew it was not one of the originals. Of course the price from this knowledgable dealer dictated it was not some "once in a life time group" find. However I am confident this belonged to a Japanese serviceman so that makes it special in my mind. Of course now I will want to add a nice "new" one in its box as well. Collectors, what a sick lot we are. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) I must say that is was kind of the Japanese to reverse the wording on the bar (or clasp) on the post war strikings. Hi Brian, personally I believe that it is Peterson piece that have unique reverse wording on the bar. I`ve never saw or heard about another piece with such reverse inscription. Nobody knows where from this piece came and why it had reverse inscription. Regards, Nick Edited August 21, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Of course now I will want to add a nice "new" one in its box as well. You should talk with Dieter about these ... I bet he has like hundred of them By the way, sometimes these "new" bear the name of the cavalier on the external cardboard wrapper (sometimes inside the box). So they indeed could be considered as issued medal Best, Nick Edited August 20, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hi Brian, personally I belive that it is Peterson piece that have unique reverse wording on the bar. I`ve never saw or heard about another piece with such reverse inscription. Nobody knows where from this piece came and why it had reverse inscription. Regards, Nick Thanks Nick, I should have known that would have been too easy. So the logical next questionis, just how do you tell on made before the surrender and the ones made afterwards? Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 So the logical next questionis, just how do you tell on made before the surrender and the ones made afterwards? * Stamp differences (from central chrysanthemum on obverse to kanji form on reverse). * Slightly different form of suspension. * Different weight and different diameter (original pieces are lighter and have slightly smaller diameter than replicas). Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Thank you once again Nick. This type of information is important to have on the forum, who knows perhaps some day one of the members will actually find an original. Ever hear of the Lost Dutchman's Miine or Eldorado? Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ... who knows perhaps some day one of the members will actually find an original. I’ll say a prayer for him Ever hear of the Lost Dutchman's Miine or Eldorado? Ice-hockey team`s? Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 You should talk with Dieter about these ... I bet he has like hundred of them By the way, sometimes these "new" bear the name of the cavalier on the external cardboard wrapper (sometimes inside the box). So they indeed could be considered as issued medal Best, Nick Na, not that many!! But I do try to collect them when I see minor variations. I'd wager that the chance of ever coming across an original is very slim. That said, many of these "new" ones would definitely have been issued to veterans as there is evidence to this. Sure, some were made for the collector's market or to be purchased by whomever - buy you definitely see these with markings that indicate regiments and so on, both the Great East Asia War medal as well as the Commemorative versions. You'll find these with dated paperwork too, best I can tell, the majority of these are from the 70s and 80s. Don't know if you can still buy these as "new" or not. But some of them are in FINE condition, no doubt! A nice, complete piece might include the cardboard box with a paper wrapper depicting the medal (rare), the medal and case of course, and possible the cellophane (?) wrapper for the case and some sort of explanatory document. They're out there! Brian, wait until one of these comes along as "complete" as possible - you'll be happy - these are really nice quality pieces - yeah, the cases are typically plastic, but there are the wood and lacquer versions too (the lacquer ones are REALLY nice - solid silver), but the other copies are too. And keep your eyes open for the Imperial Guard variant! Totally different center on the obverse and different inscription on reverse and case. There really is a significant amount of variation in these (post-war) medals, really fun to collect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 A nice, complete piece might include the cardboard box with a paper wrapper depicting the medal (rare), the medal and case of course, and possible the cellophane (?) wrapper for the case and some sort of explanatory document. They're out there! Brian, wait until one of these comes along as "complete" as possible - you'll be happy - these are really nice quality pieces - yeah, the cases are typically plastic, but there are the wood and lacquer versions too (the lacquer ones are REALLY nice - solid silver), but the other copies are too. And keep your eyes open for the Imperial Guard variant! Totally different center on the obverse and different inscription on reverse and case. There really is a significant amount of variation in these (post-war) medals, really fun to collect! There now! What did I tell you Brian! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Thanks to all for your help and guidance. This post should be of interest to others as well, there is a lot of valuable information here, so I hope they find it as time rotates it down the list. Now to watch for a complete (with box etc.) GEAW Medal for the collection. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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