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A rare old bird ! Bavarian Airgunners badge (issue type)


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Just thought i would share...

This old bird slightly battered and well worn,upper cross missing as is often the case ,and the pin clipped short ???? maybe to place on a memorial cushion ..who knows ??

This ones been through the mill ....but definetly original and period !!

Never seen an issue type to the Bavarian Airforce....

I know the purchase Prussian types are rarely seen,and the " issue" types even harder to come by..so a Bavarian" issued "Airgunners badge ..pretty unique i think ....only 600 odd Bavaian Airgunners served during the war ..so survival rate of a Bavarian issued airgunner badge during the short lived existance of this qualification badge are rare !!!

well hopefully you like !!!

All the best guys and girls

steve

Edited by arrestanddevelopment
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Nice badge indeed. The hardware looks like Juncker also the pin and catch but i never seen a Juncker bavarian air gunnar badge.

Can't say if it is period. Better pictures are needed.

You can send me the pictures and i post it for you.

Regards

Alex

Edited by jaba1914
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The quality of the stamping does not appear consistent with either Prussian or Bavarian stamped badges of period manufacture.

The "rivet marks" on the back appear to be impressions, not actual rivets.

It does not appear to be a consistent, 3-piece badge that one would normally associate with this type of rivet assembly design (again, prior to this only seen on known, original Juncker badges). One piece for the bird, one piece for the backing plate and one piece for the badge itself.

based on either set of photos shown, that's what I see.

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Here's a known original juncker (Prussian) Air Gunner badge.

The last two pix you posted does seem to show multi-part construction.

I do have quality issues still with this badge.

try a comparison of the bird on your badge to the bird on this badge on the right.

Are they identical?.

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1/one pice stamping for badge note the slight gap/split in the second picture.

2/ note the rivets....yes definetly there !!!

3/Note backing plate from pics. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

4/ note pin construction !! correct as far as iam aware !!

5/aging is consistant and not chemical ages.

6/badge is die stamped

7/pin width size is correct and same as Prussian Airgunners badge.

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So you can call me a skeptic, but I just see differences from your bird to other examples of known Juncker production. The quality of the stampings with respects to cleanliness of the edges and detail do not seem consistent with original badges I have handled and owned.

I also struggle with the fact that this is a Bavarian badge and we have never seen Juncker produce a Bavarian flight badge. is it possible? Absolutely. But one would think after almost 100 years that at least one other example of anything Bavarian produced by Juncker would have surfaced.

This leaves us with considering Meybauer (again no known examples attributed to them of a Bavarian badge)

And then we have Poellath. This manufacture made single rivet gunner badges as far as we know thus far. never seen a 3 rivet badge from this maker.

Maker "square".... yep, they made Bavarian and Prussian. However again, your badge does not appear consistent with the quality of pieces made by this maker.

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The bird is actually a near exact match ,i compared it with my own prussian airgunners,the bavarian though is more worn and battered which does obscure detail and shape a little ,it had been partially crushed at some point . Iam happy its not a copy and though you may have quality concerns ...it has a lot more going for it than against it !!! even down to the crown being cut out !!

Iv studdied it under high magnification and i can fault it when handling it !! ....because this one has turned up, dont dismiss it straight away ..there were only 600 or so airgunners who qualified so whats going to be the survival ratio ??

Sadly pictures dont always do things justice !!

I have sent Jaba ,Alex a number of pics so please feel free to carry on the thread ,all the best

steve

Edited by arrestanddevelopment
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This is a interessting badge and i think it is good to take some time with examination before make a decition. It shows definitly Juncker characteristics and it is of good workmanship. The bird is vary close to the Juncker one but have not the deep details on the wings and the body. Minor variations are seen on Juncker air gunnar badges.

I still can't say what it is.

From what I have gleaned over the years; there are two different Schaper badges out there, totally different maker marks and die characteristics.

Some people ascribe to the badge shown, some ascribe to the one I have shown.

...

Sorry Rick but i remember on your words about the Shaper badge you shown here.

Being a skeptic is the right way in collecting this badges but you have to be consequent.

Regards

Alex

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