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Would I be right in thinking that this medalbar belonged to some sort of doctor who also helped out in the Herero and Nama rebellions. The steel version of this medal went only to stay-at-homes, so could he have been organizing medical supplies? Also, were doctors issued long service awards (considered as officers?)

Thanks very much

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Military doctors were military, so received military long service awards. A long service award's lack doesn't mean much, though. If he didn't make 25 years of service...

On the other hand, the wearer might have been a civilian, e.g. a civil doctor. Nothing says "military" here.

I find it odd there's a Red Cross medal 2nd class only, but no 3rd class. They should be worn together, actually. Also, it seems to be a post-WW1 issue by Oertel, none by the Berlin mint. If so, the enemaled underground should not be engraved, while the older ones are.

Might it be possible there used to be a 3rd class, removed and replaced by someone at some time?

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Hi Sascha,

I also had worried when buying it that there wasn't a 3rd class ,despite the fact that I have seen a couple of other bars like that. However, I found this statement by Rick Research in another thread on this forum:

'Although by statutes the 2nd Class could not be awarded until the 3rd Classs was held for "at least" 5 years (both were worn together), there are many many post-1918 awards as these petered out where ONLY a second class seems to have been awarded-- perhaps mistaking the "AFTER 5 years" about holding the 3rd class for "5 years OF service" which by then anyone in the whole war had performed.'

For the whole thread see: http://gmic.co.uk/in...edal-2nd-class/

I wasn't sure if the red cross medal was postwar, but since it is it fits right in with this statement. I don't think it was replaced as the stitching (it is not connected by hooks) is tight and matches the other two medals, as does the colour of the thread used.

So if the only long service award that military doctors got was for 25 years, that means all doctors were officers (or considered to be equivalent)? Also if the red cross medal is postwar, from which period is it 1920's 30's, etc... ? Finally, what exactly do you mean by the enamelled underground should not be engraved?

Thanks for your info about the red cross medal!

Matthew

Edited by redeagleorder
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  • 1 month later...

Just noticed I missed to answer here, sorry! It's a bit difficult in English, but I'll try to make the point clear...

The 3rd class RKM was a bronze medal. It had the Red Cross struck, with an struck lines pattern. Minor differences when they changed to steel in 1915 and to a zinc alloy in 1917, but that doesn't affect the struck lining.

The 2nd classes were made from silver, the Red Cross was enemaled. They (at Berlin state mint) could have used the same die, but they didn't! A cut edge is much sharper than a struck one, and the sharper the edge, the better the light refraction under the enamel. So they made an extra die for the 2nd class medal, with no lining on the Red Cross - the pattern was done by hand, engraved or similar. Same, of course, for the 1st class medal, which was a gilt pin back cross.

This all is only valid for official made medals from Berlin mint. After WW1, the medals were made at a private medal mint in Berlin, owned by Mr. Oertel. We're still talking about official medals! But in ca. 1920, they had other issues than the light reflection below the enemal and gave a sh** for it... the Oertel 2nd class medals have a struck lining pattern. Yours is one of them, I'd say.

Here are some of mine for comparing. See the difference between a great, hand cut pattern and a boring, struck one? ;)

Additionaly, here's a cased 1st class medal from my current offerings: http://woeschler-orden.de/preu-en-rote-kreuz-medaille-i-klasse-im-verleihungsetui

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Thanks saschaw for that information on the red cross medal, I really do see the difference. However, in this case I am glad that mine is a 'boring, struck one', ;) as it quite fits in with Rick's statement and helps reassure me that the lack of a red cross third class is acceptable. So this type of struck medal was made in the early/mid -1920's? Were they given as a backlog for WW!, or for services after the war had finished?

Thanks for your explanation!

Matthew

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I think these "Abwicklungen" were all for WW1 service, and ended in 1921. The 2nd class medals by Oertel were made/delievered in 1921.

"Boring" wasn't meant to degrade them. They are rarer, by the way. The older ones are just nicer, that's it.

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@ Saschaw - Don't worry. I understood your point about 'boring', and i'm actually inclined to agree with you.

@Ulsterman - My initial thought was perhaps some doctor in the navy, due to the blue backing and non-combatants Africa medal (which was apparently also awarded to sailors who helped transport troops). However, a medical DRK official is also a possibility, especially since the Baden cross lacks an oak wreath for service under fire. Perhaps this guy thought that blue uniform = blue backing.

Grazzi hafna

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