Ulsterman Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 below is a picture of the lovely Megan Fox. Also below please find a US ribbon bar that I recently purchased at a flea market. It is very well made and almost certainly dates from the early-mid 1960s. The question is: what else do you think went with it? It is obviously one of at least a pair of ribbon bars. The long service medals however make one pause. The best answer wins my best efforts to get you a date with Ms. Fox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Both an Army Good Conduct Medal (2 awards - 6 years) and an Air Force Longevity ribbon (4 years); I don't think there is anything else with it and disagree that it's "obviously one of at least a pair of ribbon bars." At best it stands alone as a guy who did a few years of service, but did nothing special during his service. The Air Force Good Conduct Medal wasn't awarded until 1963; from 1947-63 USAF still received the Army medal. After 1963, they could wear both - so this would make it prior to 1963 I would say. Longevity ribbon insituted 1957, but retroactive to 1947. So, I would say this guy served more like late '50s. One might think WWII to add a row, but any campaign medals would have to go between the GCM and the Army Occupation Medal and there are none. Korea would have campaign medals between the AOM and the Longevity ribbon and there are none. So, this row is complete as it stands. Of course, if we want to assume it's "real" (I suspect it may even be made up) and that the owner had no campaign service - other than Germany Occupation duty - and considering the relative high precedence of the Good Conduct Medal (only achievement, commendation, meritorious, and valor awards above); best case = it's a stand alone row/bar. The only other chance might be for a single ribbon top row of either an Army or Air Force Commendation medal (1941 and 1958 respective - prior to '58, USAF received the Army medal) for extraordinary achievement or significant meritorious service during one of his assignments. When and where should I expect Ms. Fox to pick me up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Strong Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) When and where should I expect Ms. Fox to pick me up? In your dreams. Brawhahaha Larry Edited February 16, 2013 by Laurence Strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 In your dreams. Brawhahaha Larry True. Ulsterman did say "his best efforts to get a date". And we all know what his best effort means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 Ah, great analysis. But given the double knots I assumed the bar denotes 9 years GC plus 4 years USAF service ( possibly in my states Air National Guard ). The bar is very well made, with the WW2 style tailors brass fold over, with silk ribbons. so I assumed service between 1950 to 1962. If so, then he also rated a National Defense medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) But given the double knots I assumed the bar denotes 9 years GC plus 4 years USAF service I was only an officer, so my memory and knowledge of the GCM may be fuzzy, but the Army's Institute of Heraldry states however; "The second award of the Army Good Conduct Medal, for example, would display a bronze clasp with two knots" Thus, 6 years not the 9 years you state. http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/good_conduct.aspx What makes you think it PLUS 4 years USAF service for the Longevity ribbon? As I said, the Longevity ribbon was insituted 1957, but retroactive to 1947. The GCM covers "good conduct;" the Air Force didn't insitute it's own until 1963, with award of the Army medal until then - as I state above. "Longevity" is not a good conduct award. Nothing in the regs states a Longevity reg is given in lieu of a GCM; therefore, this ribbon was awarded in ADDITION to and for the SAME time as the GCM. Oak leaf clusters are awarded for subsequent awards of the Longevity (in 4 year chunks) - he has none; therefore at best we've got a guy with 7 years service (and confirms the 6 year GCM vice a "9 year" as you assumed). The MISSING National Defense Medal is one key: created in 1953 and ranking in precedence just AFTER the Army Occupation Medal - and ranking well before the Air Force Longevity Ribbon. There is nothing between the AOM and Longevity Ribbon; therefore, either it's missing for some reason (because it's a fake bar) or he served BEFORE 1953. If he served after 22 April 1953, the NDSM would be there because that's when the NDSM was instituted. He served before April 1953. The MISSING WWII awards is the second key: As I said, no WWII awards in the correct precedence between GCM and AOM; so, no WWII service - he served no earlier than 1 January 1947 since the WWII Victory Medal was awarded until 31 Dec 1946.WWII Victory ranks in precedence just BEFORE Army Occupation and AFTER GCM. It's missing; so, he has post 1947 service. So, at best we have a guy who served sometime between 1 Jan 1947 and 22 April 1953 - giving him a 6-year GCM, only one Longevity Ribbon (4 years) and he served Occupation Duty. Given the quality you state; perhaps it's not fake. That means at best, this ribbon bar is complete as it stands - no other rows. Or an outside chance, as I said before, of a single ribbon top row for a commendation medal (which I think is unlikely given the time period). BUT BUT BUT... Reading this again...the BAR IS FAKE! The Longevity Ribbon wasn't insituted until 1957; so the earliest it could appear on a bar was 1957 (even though service eligibilty was retroactive). He would have to have a 1953 NDSM! It's missing. So, either someone made a mistake in precedence or it's fake. Sorry. My only mistake was saying "late 50s" instead of "late 40s". So, tell Megan, I'll buy dinner. Edited February 16, 2013 by IrishGunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 we have a winner! I shall send Ms. fox an email and have her contact you directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 we have a winner! I shall send Ms. fox an email and have her contact you directly. See above. I'm ammending my answer. The bar is as fake as is your offer to contact Ms. Fox. Reading this again...the BAR IS FAKE! The Longevity Ribbon wasn't insituted until 1957. Which means, he would have to have a 1953 NDSM! It's missing. So, either someone made a mistake in precedence or it's fake. But then again, what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 I did send an email to Ms. Fox! Her Dad is friends with my mine, via their church. So cross your fingers......I hope you live in California! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 So cross your fingers......I hope you live in California! I've got plenty of frequent flyer miles! And time off saved! Now, what do I tell the wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spasm Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Tell the wife that Megan is better looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffskea Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Hello, sorry to stir the pot again but I agree with Irish Gunner's initial assessment and would just like to add my opinion that it is not a fake and quite plausible... First and foremost, the National Defense Service Medal was authorized for service only between June 1950- July 1954 during the Korean era. The next qualifying service period for the NDSM began Jan 1961 so this person could have easily served sometime between the end of 1954 up to 1963 before the Air Force Good Conduct Medal started to be issued. The Army of Occupation Medal was most definitely earned in Europe as opposed to Asia where this recipient could have served in Germany and Austria up to 1955 to qualify, or West Berlin for which personnel were eligible up to 1990. The two-knotted bronze bar does indicate a second award of six years, so with only one AF Longevity that would give him up to seven years service probably beginning late '54 or '55. A small but interesting ribbon bar reflecting early Cold War service. Jeff Edited March 10, 2013 by jeffskea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffskea Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 A small correction to my last he would have served between 1954-end of 1960 without NDSM - so just over six years service..cutting it close but still plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 A small correction to my last he would have served between 1954-end of 1960 without NDSM - so just over six years service..cutting it close but still plausible. Good catch Jeff; I hadn't considered the eligibility periods for NDSM. Your theory is indeed plausible - in fact, the only six year period that would make this possible. I'm still going with fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Actually, yesterday at the flea market I came across a shoebox with some color slides taken by the purported owner in Kaiserslautern...in 1959! so 1957-1960 only. not bad for a buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 All that info is a bit complicated for me... lets cut to the chase... who gets to nail Megan?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 I don't know what happened. I did my bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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