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Hi Eric

Nothing going to the grave with me but some things might be along for the ride for quite awhile! Having said that the Saxon IR103 might be up for something I dont have. All the best Allan nzherbi@gmail.com

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Interesting that all three Demags are from Saxon units. So, are the markings telling us that these are government issue? I had thought that these were private purchase pieces.

 

Chip

Edited by Chip
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Interesting that both Demags are from Saxon units. So, are the markings telling us that these are government issue? I had thought that these were private purchase pieces.

Chip

That's new to me Chip always thought they were gov.issue the knives without the proof you could buy from the corner shop and send to your hubby soldier do you have more info?

There was two issues the early jobs have the full Deutsche Maschinenfabrik and D.R.G.M. stamps [Hughes]

Eric

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Hello

To my knowledge these crankhandles (EB1 according to Carter nomenclature) were officially issued (alongside EB2) to Prussian and Saxon troops primarily as trench knives. The Bavarians were offered the EB1 and EB2 but refused them saying they were too expensive and just bought regular trench knives for their troops. In May 1915, orders were given for six trench knives to be issued to each front line Infantry company - by June 1916 this had been increased to 24 per company. I think that the preponderance of Saxon unit marks on EB1 and EB2 just represent very conscientious Saxon armourers. EB1 with non-Saxon unit marking have been found but are even rarer the Saxon marked EB1- that are quite rare themsleves! Almost all EB1 and EB2 will have a small inspection stamp somewhere. Hope this helps. Allan

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  • 4 months later...
  • 1 year later...

To my knowledge these crankhandles (EB1 according to Carter nomenclature) were officially issued (alongside EB2) to Prussian and Saxon troops primarily as trench knives. The Bavarians were offered the EB1 and EB2 but refused them saying they were too expensive and just bought regular trench knives for their troops. In May 1915, orders were given for six trench knives to be issued to each front line Infantry company - by June 1916 this had been increased to 24 per company. I think that the preponderance of Saxon unit marks on EB1 and EB2 just represent very conscientious Saxon armourers. EB1 with non-Saxon unit marking have been found but are even rarer the Saxon marked EB1- that are quite rare themsleves! Almost all EB1 and EB2 will have a small inspection stamp somewhere. Hope this helps. Allan

I'd like to know where you got most of those details please! I don't recall Carter saying anything about these first being offered to the Bavrians, etc., but I am old and so my memory could well be seriously at fault!

As for possible "very conscientious Saxon armourers." I am not so sure... I have been compiling (very slowly) an index of unit marks on imperial weapons for my personal  use (I am up to 1,000 or so by now), and off-hand, I don't recollect the Saxons being more or less 'conscientous' than any of the other state armourers when it comes to unit-marking . That said, I have some way to go yet with this project and so all might change! However, as there are many more marked Saxon ones than non-Saxon ones, it could well be because Saxony ordered them specifically for its own use. Until 1915, when bayonet orders were centralised at Erfurt, bayonets were ordered by the individual states (which is why most S.14 are marked to Bavaria and Wurttemburg), and this could well have been the case with these EB 01's.

 

Trajan

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Hello Trajan & Hoss

Delayed reply to some points. Yes, its was Carter that wrote about the Bavarian's not wanting EB1s.

Trajan - I too have a list of unit markings on Imperial Bayonets - its now has over 6000 entries.

Regarding EB1 I have 29 recorded unit marks. Of these, 16 are Saxon and remaining Prussian.  Eight of the Saxon markings are to IR102 and two to IR103 (interestingly markings for IR103 are only on the scabbard suggesting that their armourer decided to just do half the job) and two to the 1. Saxon (12th) Fieldartillerie Reg. The numbering to IR102 suggests that they issued EB1 to every soldier in the Regiment so it might be that the Saxon's decided to equip all their infantry and artillery with EB1 - hence why we see so many. Definitely, different armourers had different practices during wartime for marking weapons with most not bothering. See my recent book on the S14 bayonet for more on this http://www.imperial-german-bayonets.net and also correct info on who they were issued to.

Best wishes to all

Allan

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello Trajan & Hoss

Delayed reply to some points. Yes, its was Carter that wrote about the Bavarian's not wanting EB1s.

Trajan - I too have a list of unit markings on Imperial Bayonets - its now has over 6000 entries.

Regarding EB1 I have 29 recorded unit marks. Of these, 16 are Saxon and remaining Prussian.  Eight of the Saxon markings are to IR102 and two to IR103 (interestingly markings for IR103 are only on the scabbard suggesting that their armourer decided to just do half the job) and two to the 1. Saxon (12th) Fieldartillerie Reg. The numbering to IR102 suggests that they issued EB1 to every soldier in the Regiment so it might be that the Saxon's decided to equip all their infantry and artillery with EB1 - hence why we see so many. Definitely, different armourers had different practices during wartime for marking weapons with most not bothering. See my recent book on the S14 bayonet for more on this http://www.imperial-german-bayonets.net and also correct info on who they were issued to.

Best wishes to all

Allan

 

Thanks for that information! So, over 6,000 unit markings? That's a fair few! Perhaps at some point we ought to swap details! I have the S.14 book and have greatly enjoyed it, thanks.

 

Trajan

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