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Dear Rick!

Incredibly enough this one hasn't been identified yet... ;)

  • Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse (OEK 1909)
  • Preußen, Kgl. Hausorden von Hohenzollern, Kreuz der Ritter (OEK 1789)
  • Preußen, Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse (OEK 1762)
  • Preußen, Centenarmedaille 1897 (OEK 1965)
  • Sachsen-Königreich, Albrechts-Orden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse (OEK 2205)
  • Württemberg, Friedrichs-Orden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse (OEK 2980)
  • Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Greifen-Orden Ritterkreuz (OEK 1296)
  • Waldeck, Verdienst-Kreuz Ausgabe 1896-1918, Kreuz 4. Klasse (OEK 2857)
  • Kaiserreich Österreich-Ungarn, Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse

Since you came back on this very forum you brought a lot of goodies and identified so many more ribbon and medal bars. It is always great to follow your threads and postings, despite the fact I have so less to add, since you say it all!

Good luck in finding him!

Best regards,


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That is in my Permanent 3 AM Folder... where it has never left since you first posted it. :anmatcat:

He obviously left the service, tricking us with when and as what he got his pre-war Orders... and then came back with one of those damned Prussian Nofirstname HOH3Xs like "Hauptmann Schmidt" and no unit. :angry::banger:

I will hunt this @&%8!!!!! down until the day I die just to NOT let it get away. :violent:

Actually I have a couple of ribbon bars that have similarly defied all efforts--but at least with a medal bar, the exact class of award is there. :banger:


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Well, 7 of 9! (Star Trek character?) Who says banging your head against a wall for years won't eventually loosen something. As in since last post?

Otto Freiherr von Dungern

born 4 April 1873

SekLt 18.08.94 W15w 3. Garde Ulanen Regiment

OberLt 30.05.04. (that's right, period after the year, no other suffix)

Rittmeister 25.08.08. (there's that dot again)

1909/10 to Garde-Landwehr-Kavallerie (back later with exact date)

1910/11 (ditto) aD "with the uniform of 3. GUR"


1897, no long service. Check, (not-there check)

KO4 (back with date later). Check

MG3 21.12.07 (first name and birthdate) "Oberlt 3. GUR kmdrt zur Dienstleistung SKuKH Kronprinz" Check.

WF3a (incredibly, as a 2nd Lt!!! ???). Check

WVK4 Check

EK2 of course. Check.

HOH3X as "Rittmeister dL aD" in Staats-Anzeiger 04.07.18 and gazetted in Militär-Wochenblatt 06.08.18

Cannot account for the SA3a, but with zero nada nichts nichevo else possible... he got it SOMEHOW 1910+ for something.

Everything after this is gravy. :catjava:

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My god, Rick... that has been so quick... don't tell you didn't know before... :whistle::jumping::speechless:

Do you think that this combo is quite unique, don't you?

So great to give a name to a bar which has been nameless so long... :cheers:



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Took this freakin' long to find him, :banger: there CAN'T be another one!!!!

ADD to above--

KO4 on 15.09.04

In very late 1907 detached from the regiment to serve as Personal Adjutant to Crown Prince Willy, but that obviously didn't take because he was bounced back to the regiment 15.03.09 (MWB 18.03.09) with no new awards. Went der Garde-Landwehr-Kav. II (!!!) 20.01.10 but I don't find his retirement date.

BUT, he pops back up in the 1914-1918 Honor Rank List page 739 as a regular (again) Rittmeister aD-- and NOT bumped out with Major's rank on re-re-retiring. More interesting... he is shown there as war unit "Infanterie Bataillon 701"...

which was part of the ill-fated German "Asienkorps" in Palestine, Jordan, and Syria in 1918. Inf Bn 701 was actually what would have been a strong 1914 company, with many more German officers and German NCO as cadre for supposed Turkish personnel.

So there's got to have been a "30.10.18" Iron Half Moon in his stuff, too. (You see, Research Gnomes CAN see... What Is Not There. Oooooooooooooo.)

As far as I can tell from the Helden-Gedenkmappe, in 1921 he was living on Gut Oberau in Oberfranken, so he survived the slaughter of the last month of the war--though he might perhaps have been either wounded or a prisoner. The collapse was as sudden as it was complete--even German nurses taking up weapons to prevent massacres by Lawrence's dear allies compensating for earlier under performance.

How many YEARS has this taken, to "suddenly" fall into place TODAY? :speechless:

Edited by Rick Research
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I feel like Will Smith at the end of "Independence Day." THIS bar has been my research nightmare for YEARS. And now? Now...

Free at last! Free at last! I can sleep at night! Free at last!!!!

Edited by Rick Research
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I am happy to hear that you can at last sleep... ;)

I googled a bit...

Here are his parents:

Suffix auf Oberau Geburt 4 Apr 1873 Coburg tng_search_small.gif Geschlecht männlich Personen-Kennung I873404D Superstammbaum Zuletzt bearbeitet am 27 Jun 2012

Vater Friedrich Ernst August Freiherr von Dungern, auf Oberau, geb. 20 Sep 1839, Wiesbaden tng_search_small.gif, gest. 27 Jun 1912, Oberau tng_search_small.gif Mutter Auguste Souchay de la Duboissière, geb. 9 Jun 1842, Sachsenhausen b. Frankfurt tng_search_small.gif, gest. 8 Feb 1936, Oberau tng_search_small.gif Verheiratet 6 Okt 1864 Frankfurt tng_search_small.gif Familien-Kennung F864X06D Familienblatt

Familie Thekla von Schmidt-Pauli, geb. 17 Jun 1876, Hamburg tng_search_small.gif, gest. 20 Sep 1940, Berlin tng_search_small.gif Verheiratet 7 Okt 1896 Potsdam tng_search_small.gif Zuletzt bearbeitet am 27 Jun 2012 Familien-Kennung F896X07D Familienblatt


Unfortunately, there's no date of death...

There's another Otto von Dungern, but it is not him:


Family crest of the von Dungern on a castle in Germany (Dehrn an der Lahn): (same family... I am not so sure since Otto was born in Coburg)


Im 19. Jahrhundert wurde die Burg vom neuen Besitzer, dem Freiherr von Dungern, zu einem Schloss um- und ausgebaut. Ein von Norden nach Westen verlaufender tiefer Graben wurde aufgeschüttet und es entstand der nördlich des Turms gelegene neugotische Schlossbau, mit 9x25 Metern, mit Satteldach. Um das neue Schloss mit der alten Burg zu verbinden, wurde eine Fachwerkgalerie um den Turm geführt, die in den 2. Stock des gotischen Teils führt. Das Kaminzimmer musste verkleinert werden, um einen Flur zur Fachwerkgalerie zu erhalten.

Der "Hain" (Schlosspark) wurde als englischer Landschaftspark angelegt, mit zwei Brücken und einer Kapelle.
Der unglückliche Ausgang des ersten Weltkrieges (1914- 1918) und die ihm folgende Inflation vernichteten, gleich vielen anderen, auch die Existenz der Familie von Dungern.
Der letzte Besitzer musste es erleben, dass als Folgeerscheinung des Weltkrieges eines Tages französische Truppen in den Ökonomiegebäuden einzogen und es sich dort für eine Zeit lang gut sein ließen.
Nach dem Ende des ersten Weltkrieges kam der Besitz in öffentliche Hand, wobei Teile des Besitzes abgetrennt und als Bauernhöfe weiterverkauft wurden.

Während des zweiten Weltkrieges diente Schloss Dehrn vorübergehend als Reservelazarett. Dann bezog 1944 das Oberkommando der Luftwaffe West auf dem Rückzug aus Frankreich seine Räume.

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Maybe I could ask them, if they have more info on their ancestors... now they transformated their residence as hotel! :o



Donata Freifrau von Dungern
Oberau 1
96231 Bad Staffelstein
Tel: 09573/ 268
Email: info@schloss-oberau.de

Edited by Claudio
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All the Barons Dungern derive from the same common way-back ancestor. I'm not sure how (or even if there were rules as exit in British genealogy) to distinguish branches.

Too bad his death date hasn't turned up--it's alway nice to have a beginning, middle, and end to a saga.

At some point in the future I'm sure we'll accumulate his award dates on the other Orders. I only have that grade of Waldeck from mid-1913 on. His WF3a as a Leutnant is extremely bizarre, and why he'd have gotten the SA3a at all, let alone as a civilian, is another mystery.

Are any of these stories ever truly finished? :anmatcat:

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It was indeed. I just remembered the Württemberg Hof- und Staatshandbuch 1907 (Teil I) listed ALL Orders holders and there was Otto Freiherr von Dungern 3 GUR getting weird and inexplicable (along with several others) WF3a in 1898--first name listed.

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  • 2 years later...

I have to correct my post no 16 of Aug 7th 2013... 

Here's the correct wikipedia link Otto von Düngern-Oberau


Otto von Dungern-Oberau war der Sohn von Friedrich Ernst August Freiherr von Dungern, auf Oberau (1839–1912) und Auguste Souchay de la Duboissière (1842–1936). Von 1893 bis 1910 diente er im 3. Garde-Ulanen-Regiment in Potsdam. Dort begann seine Freundschaft mit Harry Graf Kessler, der eine homoerotische Neigung zu ihm hatte. Die beiden beendeten ihre Liebesaffäre im Winter 1894/95, blieben aber noch Jahrzehnte befreundet. Otto heiratete im Oktober 1896 in Potsdam Thekla von Schmidt-Pauli (1876–1940), mit der er vier Kinder bekam. Zwischen Oktober 1898 und August 1900 war er zum Militär-Reitinstitut in Hannover kommandiert. 1908 wurde er persönlicher Adjutant des Kronprinzen Wilhelm, wurde jedoch im Jahr darauf (15. März 1909) zu seinem Regiment zurückversetzt und auf ein Jahr ohne Gehalt beurlaubt, weil er eine Affäre mit dessen 22-jähriger Frau Cecilie gehabt hatte. Im Januar 1910 nahm er seinen Abschied aus dem Militär und übernahm das Familiengut Oberau bei Staffelstein. 1911/12 unternahm er eine Asienreise. Zu Beginn des Ersten Weltkriegs wurde er reaktiviert und erhielt zunächst das Kommando über eine Schwadron Reserve-Dragoner. Nach Kriegsende 1918 befehligte er ein Freikorps und sympathisierte 1923 mit dem so genannten Hitlerputsch. Otto von Dungern trat in den Verlag Julius Neumann in Neudammein, der auf Forst- und Jagdwesen spezialisiert war und wurde Hauptschriftleiter der Deutschen Jäger-Zeitung bzw. von 1934 bis 1943 der Deutschen Jagd, der Verbandszeitung der Deutschen Jägerschaft. Er war Kreisleiter der NSDAP in Potsdam sowie von 1934 bis 1943 in der Deutschen Jägerschaft Gaujägermeister der Kurmark. 1943 zog er sich auf Gut Oberau zurück.

Very interesting reading is also the "Tagebuch" of Harry Graf Kessler with whom Otto von Düngern he had an homosexual "inclination"... 




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