sturm Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Hello i have a medal from an old german collection, but i couldn#t find it. on the front side it looks like a order of the lion and the sun, but the backside look different. can anyone help me what i have. thank you very much! rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Its the silver medal for valour issued under Ahmad Shah and dated 1334 (1916) probably awarded for the Russian incursion into neutral Iran. Very nice medalPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Hello Paul, thank you very much for your help! is the medal rare or not? kind regards rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Hi Rene, sometimes they indeed call it Medal of the Order of the Lion and the Sun Here you will find this medal in two british (non-military) groups.http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?auction_id=38&lot_id=27647http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?auction_id=134&lot_id=66486 Indeed, according to the Order of the Lion and the Sun statute of 1848 two lower classes of the order were medals (6 medals in 7th class (3 in gold and 3 in silver) and 5 medals in 8th class (all in silver)). What happened with these medals later is not known for sure. Most likely in 1872 (when order was modified and instead of numerous different classes and grades got only 5 classes) these 11 medals become obsolete. Instead all of them a new unified (by design) medal was established. Unfortunately the regulation for this medal is not known to me... It looks like this medal wasn't strictly military award. Usually they call it "Medal of the Order of the Lion and the Sun". Sometimes "Bravery medal" or "Medal for Valor". Looks like there were three classes of this new medal Bronze Silver Gold The earliest medal that is known to me has 1299 on reverse (i.e. 1881) and made in bronze Also medals from the following years are known to me 1881 1882 1884 1899 1900 1901 Your medal has very interesting feature - all medals that I saw had inscription on the perimeter of reverse - yours medal has wreath of laurel and oak. Regards, Nick Edited September 13, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 A little excerpt from "Encyclopædia Iranica" article "Decorations" "The eighth and ninth classes of the Lion and sun for military personnel were considered medals. In 1269/1852 Dār al-fonūn (q.v.) began awarding gold, silver, and copper medals bearing the image of the lion and sun to outstanding students. The Madrasa-ye nāṣerī and Madrasa-ye neẓām-e dawlatī also granted medals (Šahīdī, pp. 226-29; Rabino di Borgomale, 1974, pl. 44/51; many examples are in the collection of the Sepah bank museum in Tehran). Later this system was replaced by the ʿElmī medal, with three classes, for the dissemination and advancement of knowledge; it was bestowed upon students, teachers, university professors, writers, and scientists, both Persian and foreign" It could be that in 1872 (or somewhere around this date) general medal in three classes was established. Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Hello Nick, thank you for your help too. that was my fist tought. the back side look different, from the piece which i know. the lion with the sword must be for iranian!? right?I have lot of books but i never found it with this backside. i think it must be rare. right?? Cheeres Rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Formally this is persian medal. Lion and Sun is of course Persian/Iranian emblem.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblem_of_Iran Rare? You certainly don't see them every day, but these are not very rare. Edited September 13, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Hi i have approx 300 books like auction catalogs over the world and there are until 40 years old, but i haven't found this medal! not at kube,not thies, not on international auction, not at an german and not at an international dealer! If these medal not Rare it must be sold by such! But i found it. I know that it is a persia medal, but the year and these backside i did found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 (edited) Hi i have approx 300 books like auction catalogs over the world and there are until 40 years old, but i haven't found this medal! not at kube,not thies, not on international auction, not at an german and not at an international dealer! If these medal not Rare it must be sold by such! Interesting criterion of rarity Another medal from different year is currently on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/IRAN-PERSIA-Medal-of-Bravery-with-original-ribbon-/321085078214?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac2297ac6 Edited September 13, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 Hi, these medal which you have shown, i have found approx. 100 times, but not with these backside and date which i have. have you a link to an auction which show such a medal? cheers rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 So the question is how rare is this particular variation? Undoubtedly it is more rare than our usual version of the medal. Could be a later design of the medal that was in use between 1909 and 1925 during the reign of last Qajar - Ahmad Shah. Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share Posted September 14, 2013 Nick i think it must be used from 1916( backside of the medal!) until i believe end of the 1 WW. cheers rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Rene, why "end of 1 ww" and why do you think, that "from 1916", i.e. this new reverse design was introduced in 1916? Did you see any others medals from 1909, 1910, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915? Or from 1917, 1918, 1919, 1920, 1921, 1922 and 1923 for that matter? The only thing that we know for a fact is that in 1907 these medals still had old style reverse. Why? Because I have scans of such medal with date ١٣۲۵ on reverse As for your medal - looks like it has ١٣٣۴ (although the image is not very sharp) on reverse and different seal in the centre of reverse. Could be stylized (?) احمد شاه مسعود Ahmad Shah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1usxs Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Hello Paul, thank you very much for your help! is the medal rare or not? kind regards rene This one is rare. This is from the last shah of Qajar dynasty - Ahmad Shah. There are many of these medals that were issued during Naserdin and Mozzaferdin shahs and are readily available. There are very few Ahmad shah. Definitely a keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 How things Babar? Any idea what is the original name for this medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 + can you read the inscription on reverse perimeter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 This one is rare. This is from the last shah of Qajar dynasty - Ahmad Shah. There are many of these medals that were issued during Naserdin and Mozzaferdin shahs and are readily available. There are very few Ahmad shah. Definitely a keeper. hello thank you very much, that was i guess. rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Rene An example similar to yours is illustrated in the Coins Medals and Seals of the Shahs of Iran by Count Rabino. The earliest example I have seen in 1253H, from the reign of Fath Ali Shah which was in the colection of the American Numismatic Society, needless to say it made 3 times the price of a Nasr ed din gold medal.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) The earliest example I have seen in 1253H, from the reign of Fath Ali Shah which was in the colection of the American Numismatic Society, needless to say it made 3 times the price of a Nasr ed din gold medal. 1253?! i.e. 1837?! Are you talking about medal of this design?! Or you were talking about the earliest example of 7th/8th class Order of the Lion and Sun (like this one from Naser al Din Shah epoch)? P.S. Meanwhile we don`t know even the exact name of this medal ... Because if its name indeed "Medal for valour/bravery" then how Livery Porter and guy from Royal Household were able to get one? Edited September 17, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Rene An example similar to yours is illustrated in the Coins Medals and Seals of the Shahs of Iran by Count Rabino. The earliest example I have seen in 1253H, from the reign of Fath Ali Shah which was in the colection of the American Numismatic Society, needless to say it made 3 times the price of a Nasr ed din gold medal. Paul Paul i am a little bid confusion! I only collect german medal and Orders. This medal from me was in the collection of an old man which died. i bought the whole collection.how much does a Nasr ed din gold medal worth? Rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1usxs Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 How things Babar? Any idea what is the original name for this medal? thank you for asking.. just been very busy with work lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1usxs Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 + can you read the inscription on reverse perimeter? 1.jpg 2.jpg This is the so called bravery medal. Excellent question about the writings on the rim. I have been trying to decipher it for past half an hour but can't quite figure out some of the words. The writing is very cryptic..i will continue to look into it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Nick here is the medal Rene, the Nasr ed Din gold medal depending on the condition is normally £600-800. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) Paul, very very nice medal! Thanks for posting! But I am afraid this medal has very little in common with one that Rene posted ;) Edited September 18, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 This is the so called bravery medal Exactly! "So called" ... I have been trying to decipher it for past half an hour but can't quite figure out some of the words. The writing is very cryptic..i will continue to look into it.. Thanks a lot! Appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now