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Gentlemen,

This RAO 4. Kl. arrived with me this morning. I have taken a few photographs and would like to hear your opinion on it.

I got a few opinions before buying it, all positive, and would now like to hear from all within the community. This is the first such cross I have owned with "glatte Arme".

There are no maker marks and the cross came with a nice piece of original ribbon.

Thank you

Pierce

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  • 5 years later...

According to Mike Estelmann, Die Modellumstellung des Roten Adler Ordens der 4. Klasse von glatte auf gekörnte Kreuzarme – Eine offene Frage findet ihre Beantwortung, published in German DGO magazine Orden und Ehrenzeichen, vol. 83 from February 2013, the change from smooth to pebbled cross arms was in 1885. Other than Mr. Nimmergut and most other German experts, who just estimated their "1879", Mike went through the effort of looking at the actual archive files. And apparently, he was the first one to do so...

:o

Just as an addition to this thread, after I've read the "1879" in the header. No offense meant, of course! Well, maybe towards Mr. "medals pope" Nimmergut...

On 18/10/2013 at 00:59, Alex K said:

My version, and this is early, (...) is stamped "Hossaur" on the edge of the lower arm.

Alex, yours is even earlier, and counts to the previous type: crosses with this purple eagle were awarded from 1846 to 1854 only! Plus, Hossauer sold his workshop in 1859, so even a later (still smooth) type with his signature would have to be considered as very early.

On 23/10/2013 at 12:53, David M said:

Are there lists for this era as well?

David, you probably read this in the past years at some other point, but just in case you didn't: All of the Prussian awards, to both Natives and Foreigners, were listed in the officially published Königlich Preußische Ordens-Liste. Only exception is for people that died between the award and the next issue of the mentioned list...

Edited by saschaw
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Hi Thanks for the update on my early version, nice to know, would I be right in assuming that the ribbon would at that time have of a yellow/orange hue than the red currently shown?

 regards

 

Alex

a couple of more pictures, the stamping is difficult to photo!

IMGP1406.JPG

IMGP1407.JPG

Edited by Alex K
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8 hours ago, saschaw said:

According to Mike Estelmann, Die Modellumstellung des Roten Adler Ordens der 4. Klasse von glatte auf gekörnte Kreuzarme – Eine offene Frage findet ihre Beantwortung, published in German DGO magazine Orden und Ehrenzeichen, vol. 83 from February 2013, the change from smooth to pebbled cross arms was in 1885. Other than Mr. Nimmergut and most other German experts, who just estimated their "1879", Mike went through the effort of looking at the actual archive files.

Hello Sascha, 

maybe we can date the change from smooth to pebbled cross arms after may 1885

It seems that red eagle order 4th class with swords with smooth cross arms was also awarded in May 1885

Kind regards 

Karsten 

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Komtur, that is a really "rare bird" and a beauty of a medal bar, apparently arranged before 1863 due to the lack of the Erinnerungs-Kriegsdenkmünze... thanks for sharing it with us!

;)

Karsten, you're probably right. The Prussian officials discussed the change in April 1885, and it probably took a while until the new style crosses were available and actually handed out. All this is described a bit more in detail in Mike's article... I assume you know it, don't you?

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