Magician Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Can someone tell me for which type of silver Signum Lavdis medal this case was issued ? ( Franz Joseph or Karl ) There are no stamps on a case. Also any idea when was is issued ? (before war, during war or at the end of war) Currently I have a FJ medal inside, which I don't know if it's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Not easy to give a definitive answer. In my opinion though, this type of cases can be attributed to a late-war issue. In other words, in your interesting case would better contain a Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille of the Karl I type. All the best, E.L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magician Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 I got a few answers and all are different. Some say it's for FJ medal some for Karl. A few years ago I saw same case and also FJ medal was inside. So..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifes Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well, as Elmar Lang wrote...not easy to give definitive answer but I have to second what he stated. At the end of the War the resources of the Monarchy became very tense. It concerned everything, not only decorations (silvered bronze and other metals had been used instead of silver, gold wasn't used since 1915 anymore) but also the cases. This is typical late-war paper box (Schachtel) used for MVM Karl. It can`t definitely rule out MVM FJI, but I would incline to Karl issue too. Regards, Tifes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I have something similar that I'll have to post tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Heres something similar, Patriae ac humanitati 1864-1914 Picked it up a couple months ago, not sure if it is what it claims to be Its in a paper case and on the reverse has Rothe and Naffe (in photos is more info) I was told it is silver and not bronze (as is the custom for usual medals of this type, a much rarer variant) Here are the photos: Edited October 25, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifes Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Hello Rogi, this is a paper box for silver or bronze Red Cross Honor medal for Merits. It´s definitely medal without War Decoration so it was awarded to someone who financially contributed to A-H Red Cross during the Great War and hence he (it was a man, women would get the medal on the bow ribbon) was obliged to pay 300 Kronen (at once or 3 x 100 Kronen in 3 years) plus tax of 20 Kronen (paid only once when awarded). Some better positioned citizens or state officials did it very often to demonstrate theirs loyalty to the Emperor, State and Army in war. This medal is later-war issue. It´s not made of silver but just of regular metal which was silvered. Silver ones are quite rare with less than 400 pieces issued and all of them are hallmarked. I do not see any hallmark on your medal (on the suspension). Silver was only used at the beginning of the war and later on it was replaced by regular non-precious metal. This is such piece (or at least I think so) but it´s in very good condition, virtually mint and probably it wasn't worn at all. Paper box definitely belongs to that medal. Everything is correct as it should be. Nice addition to the collection indeed. Regards, Tifes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 (edited) Hello Rogi, this is a paper box for silver or bronze Red Cross Honor medal for Merits. It´s definitely medal without War Decoration so it was awarded to someone who financially contributed to A-H Red Cross during the Great War and hence he (it was a man, women would get the medal on the bow ribbon) was obliged to pay 300 Kronen (at once or 3 x 100 Kronen in 3 years) plus tax of 20 Kronen (paid only once when awarded). Some better positioned citizens or state officials did it very often to demonstrate theirs loyalty to the Emperor, State and Army in war. This medal is later-war issue. It´s not made of silver but just of regular metal which was silvered. Silver ones are quite rare with less than 400 pieces issued and all of them are hallmarked. I do not see any hallmark on your medal (on the suspension). Silver was only used at the beginning of the war and later on it was replaced by regular non-precious metal. This is such piece (or at least I think so) but it´s in very good condition, virtually mint and probably it wasn't worn at all. Paper box definitely belongs to that medal. Everything is correct as it should be. Nice addition to the collection indeed. Regards, Tifes There is a hallmark on the side of the medal itself Thank you so much Tifes . I think I know what I should be looking for in Austrian silver hallmarks but just in case, it should be something similar to Dianna's head (plus numbers for grade), are there any other marks that might denote silver? Edit: I've taken a look and it appears to be an A in a circle which just means it is made in Vienna Satisfied about having an original, but un-satisfied as it was sold to me as "silver" guaranteed lol oh well, lice and learn I guess It is interesting non the less, Thank you so much Tifes I don't think I'll ever have another opportunity to buy such a mint piece so it is definatley staying in my collection Edited October 26, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifes Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Well, if it´s "A" on the rim then it´s silver. No doubt about it. I didn't have a chance to see it. I checked only the suspension and that seemed to be "clear" "A" in the circle is the hallmark of Vienna Assay Office for precious metals (silver, gold). It probably means that this decoration was made by state-run producer. That one which is in my collection was made by Mayer´s und Soehne company (V.M. as maker´s mark) and it´s hallmarked by "Head of the Greyhound" (Windhundkopfpunze) for silver of 800/1000 purity. Both marks are on the suspension arch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) By the box, this one is made by Roth and Neffe, but I know Roth has its own hallmark, it was never marked as such on these medals I beleive? and only the A is on there. (the A is on the circular part of the side of the medal can't remember which side) I've read on a really good site(that I can't find now!) that the Silver ones (for Roth) were very rarely hallmarked with the maker's marks on these specific Medals for the Red Cross. How low was the number for this Red Cross Civil minted in silver? Edited October 29, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iver Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 ..piece I had in my collection... marked (Souval?) and hallmarked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Very cool Iver, Thank you for sharing it with us So now 2 of these on the forum hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hello! The hallmark ‘A’ on the rim is for Viennese State Mint (Hautmunzamt Wien) and did not need the extra hallmark for precious metals... So it's definitely silver medal! But I do not understand how the medal from the period before the war ( WW1), finds himself in a box from the period at the end of of the war?! It is possible that it is a replacement box? I would also like to know if in the original set, was required that the manufacturer of the box and the medal was the same? Otherwise a very beautiful and interesting medals/boxes!!! Best regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Hello! The hallmark ‘A’ on the rim is for Viennese State Mint (Hautmunzamt Wien) and did not need the extra hallmark for precious metals... So it's definitely silver medal! But I do not understand how the medal from the period before the war ( WW1), finds himself in a box from the period at the end of of the war?! It is possible that it is a replacement box? I would also like to know if in the original set, was required that the manufacturer of the box and the medal was the same? Otherwise a very beautiful and interesting medals/boxes!!! Best regards! Ah that is interesting, I had no idea that they didn't match, it was sold to me as matching set, but I would definatley like to know too It is good that the medal is Silver now it seems a new quest begins Could this medal have been left over from the initial batch of Silver medals and just placed into a later box? or switched from the recipient after he received it (could you be awarded 2 silvers?) I've seen this happen with some other items (totally not militaria related, but it is known to happen ) For example Omega and Rolex used to switch and provide whatever watch box was on hand to its customers. So you ended up sometimes with Speedmasters in Seamaster boxes etc. Edited October 30, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Rogi I can not say for sure, that the box and the medal do not match... inscription on the box corresponding to this medal! But it is a little unusual that the box is made of paper ( carton ), which is typical for the late period of the war. And also the names of the manufacturers are not the same... Therefore my questions -guesses... Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iver Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 ...to the set i have post photos... I have never seen a case (box) from the maker SOUVAL.. so I think they have used a box from another maker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) ...to the set i have post photos... I have never seen a case (box) from the maker SOUVAL.. so I think they have used a box from another maker... Maybe it could be very similar like in Serbia producers (Vienese companies that produced for Serbia), some were sub contracted to other firms so the original producer didn't make the box. It is similar to Takovo's and other orders from Serbia. Edited October 31, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Iver I really admire your box with medal! But, I seriously doubt that one manufacturer like SOUVAL, used a box from another manufacturer like ROTHE with its logo. There was a producer who was making only the boxes - ETUIS U. KASSETTENFABRIK IG. BERGMANN WIEN VII... and probably this smaller manufacturers use these boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogi Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) ok so, the medal variant I have is from the Austrian (Vienna) authorized producer itself?Is there a photo of the proper box that I should search ebay for Now that I know! :) Edited November 27, 2013 by Rogi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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