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Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory - Present Day Market Realities

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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:52, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  There are now clearly some ongoing shenanigans with this set.  Although ostensibly "sold" a few days ago for $788.79, it has now reappeared on the well-known auction site with a BIN price of $1,900.00 and a "Best Offer" option.  I'd steer clear of this seller.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  The BIN price dropped to $1,800.00 on January 26th.  I still advise caution.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:56, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  The BIN price dropped to $1,800.00 on January 26th.  I still advise caution.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  Just relisted with the BIN price lowered to $1,700.00. 

Regards,

slava1stclass

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On ‎16‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:57, USSR said:

Here another full cavalier:  Awarded to jr sergeant Mikhail Vladimirovich Getmansky (Михаил Владимирович Гетманский)

For street fighting in the very center of Berlin during the Battle of Berlin. 

One of the very last OG1s

FF5190A0-B0AB-46E6-ACF1-EDB31360DEA9.jpeg

5E43C458-5E8B-4B73-9854-48FDDFF51211.jpeg

Gents,

  This OGI is now listed on the well-known auction site with a BIN price of $12,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  A Category 1 Full Cavalier set that was up for auction last November in the former Soyuz.  The recipient was a sergeant and squad leader in a rifle regiment assigned to a rifle division when he was nominated for the Hero of the Soviet Union title.  The rifle corps commander subsequently recommended a downgrade to OGI which was then endorsed further up his chain of command.  He was also awarded an ORS and two BMs during the war.  It is unknown what the set sold for.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOC Set a.jpg

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Gents,

  Listed on the well-known auction site two days ago.  The BIN price is set at $9,999.99.  The recipient was erroneously awarded two OGIIIs during the war only to have the second award amended to this OGI in 1969 when he officially attained Full Cavalier status.  He was a corporal serving as a machine gunner in a rifle regiment assigned to a rifle division when recommended for his final OG.  He was also awarded an ORS and two BMs during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOCb.jpg

PKOCc.jpg

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On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 12:06, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Listed on the well-known auction site two days ago.  The BIN price is set at $9,999.99.  The recipient was erroneously awarded two OGIIIs during the war only to have the second award amended to this OGI in 1969 when he officially attained Full Cavalier status.  He was a corporal serving as a machine gunner in a rifle regiment assigned to a rifle division when recommended for his final OG.  He was also awarded an ORS and two BMs during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOCb.jpg

PKOCc.jpg

Gents,

  It sold today.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  Just listed on the well-known NYC-area dealer's web site.  Price:  $8,500.00.  Recipient earned his OGI during the Battle of Berlin.  He was a Guards junior sergeant serving as a 120mm mortar crew member in a Guards rifle regiment (subordinated to 8th Guards Army) when recommended for it.  He would subsequently march in the June 24, 1945, Victory Parade on Red Square.

Regards,

slava1stclass 

PKOC Berlin.jpg

PKOC Berlina.jpg

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3 hours ago, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just listed on the well-known NYC-area dealer's web site.  Price:  $8,500.00.  Recipient earned his OGI during the Battle of Berlin.  He was a Guards junior sergeant serving as a 120mm mortar crew member in a Guards rifle regiment (subordinated to 8th Guards Army) when recommended for it.  He would subsequently march in the June 24, 1945, Victory Parade on Red Square.

Regards,

slava1stclass 

PKOC Berlin.jpg

PKOC Berlina.jpg

Gents,

  An interesting twist has come to light.  Meet OGI serial number 1153's fraternal twin.  Each is original in every respect.  This "twin" was accompanied by its associated OGII and OGIII.  The set was on the market within the past year.  It could be serial number 1153 seen below was issued as an official duplicate to replace the above OGI which is currently offered for sale.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOCc.jpg

PKOCd.jpg

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On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 12:06, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Listed on the well-known auction site two days ago.  The BIN price is set at $9,999.99.  The recipient was erroneously awarded two OGIIIs during the war only to have the second award amended to this OGI in 1969 when he officially attained Full Cavalier status.  He was a corporal serving as a machine gunner in a rifle regiment assigned to a rifle division when recommended for his final OG.  He was also awarded an ORS and two BMs during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOCb.jpg

PKOCc.jpg

 

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 20:19, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  It sold today.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  It was relisted on the well-known auction site yesterday, but now at $9,999.99 or Best Offer.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:52, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  There are now clearly some ongoing shenanigans with this set.  Although ostensibly "sold" a few days ago for $788.79, it has now reappeared on the well-known auction site with a BIN price of $1,900.00 and a "Best Offer" option.  I'd steer clear of this seller.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:56, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  The BIN price dropped to $1,800.00 on January 26th.  I still advise caution.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 07:21, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just relisted with the BIN price lowered to $1,700.00. 

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  With no takers thus far, it was just relisted with a $200.00 price cut and a new BIN price of $1,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 13:30, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just listed on the well-known NYC-area dealer's web site.  Price:  $8,500.00.  Recipient earned his OGI during the Battle of Berlin.  He was a Guards junior sergeant serving as a 120mm mortar crew member in a Guards rifle regiment (subordinated to 8th Guards Army) when recommended for it.  He would subsequently march in the June 24, 1945, Victory Parade on Red Square.

Regards,

slava1stclass 

PKOC Berlin.jpg

PKOC Berlina.jpg

Gents,

  No longer listed/available.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  This OGII to a Full Cavalier recently sold in the former Soyuz for $540.00.  The recipient was a Guards Sergeant serving as a 76mm gunner in a Guards rifle regiment when recommended for his OGI.  As he was KIA before his OGI could be presented, in accordance with awards policy in force at the time,  it was not presented to his next of kin.  He was also awarded an ORS and BM during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

KIA.jpg

KIA 2.jpg

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On ‎23‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 15:51, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Currently available on the well-known auction site for a buy-it-now price of $3,500.00.  The orders booklet and OGII only first surfaced at auction in Ukraine a couple of years back.  Since then, the "OGIII" has now suddenly appeared.  While I'm confident in the OGII's and orders booklet's authenticity, I can't say the same for the OGIII based on the images below.  While the OGIII's "serial number" matches that awarded to the Full Cavalier in question, the likelihood of the original OGIII being found and then reunited with the OGII and orders booklet seems remote at best.  The seller is in Latvia and has a solid eBay reputation.

  In any event, this an interesting offering as the Full Cavalier in question initially served in an airborne unit and later transitioned to duties as an aerial gunner/radio operator in an IL-2 Shturmovik ground attack aircraft.  His OGIII recommendation included credit for shooting down a German aircraft.  His IL-2 pilot would go on to earn the HSU title.

Regards,

slava1stclass

OKf.jpg

OK.jpg

OKa.jpg

OKb.jpg

OKc.jpg

OKd.jpg

OKe.jpg

 

On ‎17‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:52, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  There are now clearly some ongoing shenanigans with this set.  Although ostensibly "sold" a few days ago for $788.79, it has now reappeared on the well-known auction site with a BIN price of $1,900.00 and a "Best Offer" option.  I'd steer clear of this seller.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 09:56, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  The BIN price dropped to $1,800.00 on January 26th.  I still advise caution.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 07:21, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just relisted with the BIN price lowered to $1,700.00. 

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 16:15, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  With no takers thus far, it was just relisted with a $200.00 price cut and a new BIN price of $1,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  The price was cut again - to $1,400.00 - on May 15, 2019.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  Currently available at a West European dealer.  Asking price:  $9,693.24.  The recipient was a senior sergeant serving as a gun commander in an independent anti-tank battalion assigned to a rifle division when recommended for his OGI.  He was also awarded an ORS during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOCa.jpg

PKOCb.jpg

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On ‎27‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 19:54, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Currently available in the former Soyuz.  Asking price:  $30,500.00. 

  The set includes a duplicate/replacement award booklet which the Russian Federation issued on June 2, 1994.  It's the first time I've seen such a booklet with a Full Cavalier set. 

  He was a sergeant major and recon squad leader in a rifle battalion when recommended for his OGI.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOC Set.jpg

PKOC Set a.jpg

 

On ‎02‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 09:04, USSR said:

That’s absurd imho

 

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 08:44, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  This group has just been listed on the well-known auction site with a Buy It Now price of $43,500.00.  While the U.S. stock market took a severe beating this week, documented Full Cavalier sets continue to skyrocket (at least in terms of asking price!).  Check it out.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  Still listed on the well-known auction site.  The BIN price was reduced to $39,500.00 on June 16, 2019.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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If that were to sell at any figure approaching that asked then i think there is a strong chance of me succeeding pope Francis (and I am protestant).

Paul

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3 minutes ago, paul wood said:

If that were to sell at any figure approaching that asked then i think there is a strong chance of me succeeding pope Francis (and I am protestant).

Paul

Paul,

  But the shipping charge from Armenia is a real steal at only $7.99...

Regards,

slava1stclass

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You could get away with another five bucks for shipping.

Paul

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Gents,

  Recently surfaced in the former Soyuz.  Asking price:  $15,000.00.  The set included the recipient's Ordenskya Knizhka.  He was a senior sergeant serving as a communications squad leader in a rifle division's DIVARTY when recommended for his OGI.  In addition to being one of the very few Full Cavaliers who was an ethnic Jew, he was also awarded an ORS and BM during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Special.jpg

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On 24/07/2013 at 13:22, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

Currently available on the well-known auction site for a BIN asking price of $11,000.00. Before you rush off to log on to your PayPal account, however, note that like the Glory 1st in post #212 above, this is an unissued example. How it got out of the mint is an entirely different matter...

Regards,

slava1stclass

post-1011-0-20362700-1374686505.jpg

post-1011-0-99138100-1374686520.jpg

post-1011-0-94455900-1374686539.jpg

 

On 15/10/2014 at 16:06, GHB said:

Stand-alone OG1 from post 362 (unissued s/n 2174) now has brothers and is offered as a full glory set on a popular auction site.

On the US site but the medal is in Greece and he ships worldwide. Opening bid now $11,999 for the "full set.".

GHB

 

On 21/10/2014 at 11:03, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

As GHB notes, this is clearly a "thrown together" Full Cavalier "set." While OGI s/n 2174 is legit, it was never officially awarded and therefore has no associated OGII or OGIII.

The "advertised" OGII is a doctored OGIII. The "advertised" OGIII appears legit.

In offering OGI s/n 2174 as part of a "Full Cavalier set", the seller is simply trying to move the OGI at his original asking price for the OGI as a stand-alone piece. Steer clear.

Regards,

slava1stclass

post-1011-0-87958900-1413903812.jpg

post-1011-0-48073400-1413903814.jpg

Gents,

  Almost five years later, this "set" is once again listed on the well-known auction site.  Asking price:  $12,499.00.  Although the current owner/seller is located in California and not Greece, the same qualifiers identified in the above historical posts pertain.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  Currently at auction in the former Soyuz with the opening bid set at $484.00.  This OGIII was awarded to a Full Cavalier who was a Guards Senior Sergeant serving as a submachine gunner in a reconnaissance company assigned to a Guards tank brigade in 4th Guards Tank Army when recommended for his OGI.  He was a Guards sergeant when awarded this OGIII.  He fought at Kursk and was also awarded two OPWIs and a BM during the war.

Regards,

slava1stclass

PKOC.jpg

PKOCa.jpg

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On 02/02/2017 at 15:43, USSR said:

Or mine 😉

IMG_4807.JPG

DSC01512.JPG

 

On 03/02/2017 at 01:39, Christian Zulus said:

A copy, USSR? The Spassky-Tower and the Red Star are looking different ...

 

On 03/02/2017 at 02:59, USSR said:

No, it's authentic and comes with a COA. Probably some distortion as a result of the bright the lighting.

 

On 03/02/2017 at 18:33, Christian Zulus said:

Dear USSR,

the Spassky-Tower and the Red Star on top are too narrow. Can you forward the photograph of your OGI on the COA?

If your OGI is authentic, then it looks like fresh from the stocks of the mint. Did you invest some few bucks into research?

Kind regards

Christian

 

On 05/02/2017 at 16:56, USSR said:

Here it is. But as you can see, the serial number was altered. I am really curious why this was done.

270296701001748.jpg

 

On 05/02/2017 at 18:17, USSR said:

Here it is

IMG_4273.JPG

And a scan of the obverse 

IMG_4274.JPG

 

On 05/02/2017 at 18:33, Egorka said:

Thanks! A bit weird... :) He wore his award at least once, when his photograph was taken. :) So the mint condition is too minty... And obviously faked number and erasure signs of the old one. 

Did you get it in a group? I am thinking why one would fake a number? If we trust the order it self is genuine, then why bother? Only if to fit a document or a group... 

 

On 05/02/2017 at 18:47, USSR said:

I'm very sure it's authentic. Not only because the COA was made by 3 experts (and because I am not exactly a beginner either), but also because this order was bought in Russia 1993 by a trusted friend of mine. 

Now, the reason why the serial number was buffed out... One can only speculate. What I did notice is that the serial number was erased in a similar manor as some duplicate OPW's 1 and (other?) duplicate Glory's 1st class I have witnessed. But the engraving of the new serial number is a real mistery. The order was not purchased as part of a group so it was not done to deceive.

 

On 05/02/2017 at 21:31, Christian Zulus said:

Dear USSR,

no doubt, your OGI is 100% authentic - your first photograph was wrong :-)

It's a very late version with that pebbled rv.

A more or less logic solution for the new engraved s/n. and the absolute 10/10 condition might be, that Gantsev's OGI had been stolen, he went with his documents to the mint and they gave him - or sold him - this very new one. Maybe the stamping machine was out of order or engraving was just easier. So the mint could also not STAMP this cyrillic "d" on the reverse for "duplicat".

Have you checked Gantsev's personel files in the military archives, if there is something like that recorded?

Kind regards

Christian

 

On 06/02/2017 at 07:10, USSR said:

Thanks Christian,

Yes, it does sound like a plausible explanation. I have not checked the files yet. Do you think this kind of information is documented? 

Cheers!

Matt

 

On 06/02/2017 at 11:47, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  My take:

  - The obverse of "967" clearly bears the hallmarks of an original, mint-produced OGI.

  - Gantsev's OGI was approved on April 10, 1945.  He died in 1968. 

  - I have never encountered a mint-issued official duplicate OGI whose serial number was hand engraved.  All serial numbers were stamped.  The stamped Cyrillic letter "D" (for duplicate) was found above the serial number.

  - I believe USSR's OGI to be a non-issued/unawarded example whose original serial number was four digits.  That serial number was removed and serial number "967" was added.  It is anyone's guess as to why "967" was chosen.  For illustrative purposes, the attachment shows the reverse side of two sequentially numbered non-issued OGIs.  As Christian noted, their very pronounced stippling clearly matches that of USSR's OGI.

  While USSR's OGI's authenticity is not in doubt, the fact it was altered will clearly affect its long-term value.  In my personal view, it would have been better if the original serial number had not been removed - even if it was a non-issued piece.

Regards,

slava1stclass 

Twins.jpg

 

On 06/02/2017 at 15:39, Egorka said:

Slava1stclass puts it well. Sorry to say, but I think, this order is the victim of the "wild" 1990s. The fact that it was purchased in Russia in 1993 strongly supports this case. 

 

On 07/02/2017 at 12:59, USSR said:

No need to say to say sorry;-) I'm well aware that the value is affected by the serial number alteration 😉

 

On 10/02/2017 at 08:45, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Serial number "967" is now available for sale on the well-known auction site.  Opening bid was .99 U.S. cents.  Current bid stands at $20.50.

  Christian's and my own comments used earlier in this thread are cited in the order's description:

"The first theory is that the initial order was stolen from or lost by Dmitry Feodorovich Gantsev, he went with his documents to the mint and they gave him - or sold him - this very new one. The stamping machine might have been out of order so the mint could notstamp the number and the cyrillic "D" for "duplicat".

The second theory is that the order is a non-issued/unawarded example whose original serial number was four digits.  That serial number was removed and serial number "967" was added."

  Good luck to USSR! 

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

On 10/02/2017 at 10:07, Christian Zulus said:

Gentlemen,

"the first theory", mine, is totally wrong! I made a mistake 😞 I simply oversaw, that Gantsev already passed away in 1968 and not in the 1990s, during the inferno of the Yeltsin-era. Of course, in the 1960s Gantsev would have got a duplicate OGI with stamped s/n. and with an "d" on it!

"The second theory" by Slava1stclass is the correct one :-)

I guess, Matt's OGI will get a highest bid somewhere in the range between USD 5,000.- and USD 7,000.-.

The order is in an outright 10/10 condition, represents the very last version and there are no doubts about authenticy. On the other side, this OGI has no history, due to fact, that this order came directly - stolen or illegally sold - from the mint and the s/n. was afterwards faked, to hide the legal ownership of the Moscow mint. So, it seems quite difficult, to sell it to a Russian collector.

Kind regards

Christian

 

On 19/02/2017 at 22:39, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  USSR's OGI serial number "967" sold for $5,000.00 on the well-known auction site. 

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  Just a tad over 2 1/2 years later and good old number "967" is up for auction in the former Soyuz.  Opening bid is set at $3,500.00.

Regards.

slava1stclass

Edited by slava1stclass

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On 27/09/2019 at 15:22, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just a tad over 2 1/2 years later and good old number "967" is up for auction in the former Soyuz.  Opening bid is set at $3,500.00.

Regards.

slava1stclass

Gents,

  "967" sold at its initial price of $3,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Gents,

  Currently available on the well-known auction site for a BIN price of $8,999.00.  He was a senior sergeant serving as a mortar crew chief in a mortar company assigned to a rifle regiment when recommended for his OGI.  His regiment was subordinate to the 2nd Ukrainian Front.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Kiri.jpg

Kirib.jpg

Edited by slava1stclass

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  On 23/09/2016 at 15:51, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Currently available on the well-known auction site for a buy-it-now price of $3,500.00.  The orders booklet and OGII only first surfaced at auction in Ukraine a couple of years back.  Since then, the "OGIII" has now suddenly appeared.  While I'm confident in the OGII's and orders booklet's authenticity, I can't say the same for the OGIII based on the images below.  While the OGIII's "serial number" matches that awarded to the Full Cavalier in question, the likelihood of the original OGIII being found and then reunited with the OGII and orders booklet seems remote at best.  The seller is in Latvia and has a solid eBay reputation.

  In any event, this an interesting offering as the Full Cavalier in question initially served in an airborne unit and later transitioned to duties as an aerial gunner/radio operator in an IL-2 Shturmovik ground attack aircraft.  His OGIII recommendation included credit for shooting down a German aircraft.  His IL-2 pilot would go on to earn the HSU title.

Regards,

slava1stclass

OKf.jpg

OK.jpg

OKa.jpg

OKb.jpg

OKc.jpg

OKd.jpg

OKe.jpg

 

  On 17/01/2019 at 09:52, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  There are now clearly some ongoing shenanigans with this set.  Although ostensibly "sold" a few days ago for $788.79, it has now reappeared on the well-known auction site with a BIN price of $1,900.00 and a "Best Offer" option.  I'd steer clear of this seller.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

  On 28/01/2019 at 09:56, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  The BIN price dropped to $1,800.00 on January 26th.  I still advise caution.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

  On 18/02/2019 at 07:21, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  Just relisted with the BIN price lowered to $1,700.00. 

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

  On 21/03/2019 at 16:15, slava1stclass said:

Gents,

  With no takers thus far, it was just relisted with a $200.00 price cut and a new BIN price of $1,500.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Gents,

  The price was cut again - to $1,400.00 - on May 15, 2019.

Regards,

slava1stclass

 

Gents,

  This group sold for $1,400.00 on September 8, 2019.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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