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Oak leaf for Iron Cross 2nd Class 1870


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There seems to be a lot of different versions/makers (20 and more) of the Oak Leaf for the Iron Cross 2nd class 1870. Some of them can be detected presumably as original made for the awarded person, because we found these versions three and more times on apparently old order bars (Variant 1, 2, 3, 6, 10, 13). One version (Variant 5) seems to be a modern copy. Interestingly none of these versions is exactly like the example officially made and stored from the Prussian General Ordens Kommission. The reason for this circumstance seems to be the fact, that the Oak Leaves had to be purchased privately and were not displayed by the General Ordens Kommission.

So far until now. Please support this research by pictures of Oak Leaves from order bars!

Thanks and Regards, Komtur.

Edited by Komtur
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Sorry, I dont have better quality pics, I dont know if they are usable...

The left one is not definitely to assign to one variant because of the poor details. The right Oak Leaf is very likely variant 3. But ist seems, it is on a single ribbon/cross and not on an order bar. Therefore I can´t count it for the statistics above.

But thanks anyway :beer:

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... Like Trevor, I am curious about the oaks with acorns but I understand your not including them if none were found on bars.

That is right. For this kind of view, I only "count" items on order bars. For a later intended publication I will include these other versions too.

Regards, Komtur.

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Here is a question... when it come to 1870 bars, I had more without oakleaves than with them.... is it safe to make this calculation based on just mounted oakleaves? What if some crazy guy have made 200 sets of oakleaves and went crazy mounting them on bars.... it would badly sway this in the wrong direction....

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Here is a question... when it come to 1870 bars, I had more without oakleaves than with them.... is it safe to make this calculation based on just mounted oakleaves? What if some crazy guy have made 200 sets of oakleaves and went crazy mounting them on bars.... it would badly sway this in the wrong direction....

This is a question of statistics and likelyhood. There is indeed a danger to be killed by a down falling roof tile, if you leave your house. But we all feel quite safe, leaving our houses ;) .

If I found the same version of an Oak leaf on ten different order bars from ten different places/collections, some of them coming directly from the family of the awarded person, there is a very small chance, that some crazy guy had all these bars in his dirty hands.

And why should someone do that? There is not such a big difference in the value of a bar with or without Oak Leaf. If I decide, that a combination of awards on a 1870ies bar is interesting for me, the price I am willing to pay, depends not on this question.

If we consider, that besides all this, the feared setting happend, shouldn´t we find not so obvious differences in preservation?

In the end: variant 5 is very likely a fake - I found this version only on ONE bar. Variant 10 is to be found in a AWS-catalogue of 1908 - I compiled until now EIGHT examples of this version on different order bars :whistle:

Best regards, Komtur.

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Variant 3

8 examples of this version could be found on order bars.

It is shown additionaly in each case once in the basic publications of Heyde and Wernitz.

Hm, unfortunately the edition of older parts of this thread is impossible :( . So I have to change it in that way ...

:cheers: dedehansen. Yours was variant 3 Nr. 8.

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