Uncategorised Battle of Tsushima - Japanese TV clip

[drclaw]

Here's a little festive fun.

Edited December 18, 2013 by drclaw

[drclaw]

Other interesting things from the movie clip:

* Admiral Tojo is shown commanding, 'old style', on the open deck as he did in the actual battle - he was wounded in the thigh by a shell splinter but refused to leave his post. This was grossly irresponsible as a single lucky shot might have incapacitated him and his entire staff, threatening the Japanese command of the battle.

* Admiral Rozhestvensky is shown commanding under cover, presumably in the conning tower - he too was wounded in the battle and had been evacuated to a destroyer when his flagship the Suvorov sank

* Numerous small fires can be seen burning on the superstructure of the Russian ships - the Japanese used shells filled with 'shimose' which worked similar to napalm, causing numerous fires

* The Japanese armoured cruisers can be seen forming part of the line of battle (as did the Russian armoured cruisers)

This is particularly interesting as it shows an important point in the evolution of naval warfare.

Prior to the launching of HMS Dreadnought, there wasn't all that much difference between battleships and armoured cruisers. Battleships typically had four 10-, 11- or 12-inch guns in two turrets, and a heavy secondary armament of 6-inch guns. Armoured cruisers typically had four 8-inch guns in two turrets, and a heavy secondary armament of 4-, 5- or 6-inch guns. In tonnage terms, they were not that dissimilar and some armoured cruisers were actually larger than battleships. They were however lighter armoured and a couple of knots faster.

Once HMS Dreadnought was launched, countries began building battleships with ten or more heavy guns. In terms of displacement, they were twice, three times as large as armoured cruisers. Given the massive disparity in firepower now, armoured cruisers no longer had a place in a main battle-line. The British still insisted on keeping them so and in the Battle of Jutland, the Grand Fleet lost three armoured cruisers with heavy loss of life after they strayed within range of German dreadnoughts and battlecruisers. They never should have been there.

Some argue the battlecruiser was effectively a super armoured cruiser. It too sparked debate over whether they had a place in a main battle-line and go toe-to-toe against battleships.

The British lost three battlecruisers at Jutland although this was largely due to poor ammunition handling procedures as opposed overly thin armour.

HMS Hood DID however meet her end against Bismarck because of her horribly thin deck armour. But that's another story.

Edited December 18, 2013 by drclaw

[paul wood]

Certainly brightened my morning up.

Paul

[JapanX]

Check out comments to this clip!

Deep historiographical analysis :lol:

[drclaw]

Nick, what's the popular view of Russian historians about the Battle of Tsushima?

Personally, I think it was an extraordinarily brave act on both sides.

The Russians sailed halfway around the world, knowing they would fight a fresh, formidable fleet at the end of the voyage despite being completely exhausted.

The Japanese faced a Russian fleet more than twice their size: 10 battleships / coastal defence ships versus four battleships.

The Russians fought their guns to the last and only surrendered the next day when they were completely surrounded.

[922F]

See also various utube snips [stills & recreations] concerning Russian cruiser Varyag [1899] famous for heroic action in the pre-Tsushima battle of Chemulpo Bay. Built in USA, owned & fought by Russians & scuttled by her crew rather than surrender, raised by Japanese & added to their navy, returned to Russia during WWI, sent to UK for upgrades, seized by UK during Russian revolution, and sunk [run aground] on her 1920 voyage to Germany for scrapping!

[JapanX]

See also various utube snips [stills & recreations] concerning Russian cruiser Varyag [1899] famous for heroic action in the pre-Tsushima battle of Chemulpo Bay.

Photos + detailed chronology of the battle

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/45833-chemulpo-1904-medal/page-2

[JapanX]

Nick, what's the popular view of Russian historians about the Battle of Tsushima?

In a nutshell main causes of defeat in Soviet/Russian historiography

"antediluvian overladen ships with fatigue and poorly trained gun crews + bad tactics"

But I think true causes were

"terrible tactic + terrible ammunition (problems with fuses + problems with explosiveness)"

[drclaw]

"terrible tactic + terrible ammunition (problems with fuses + problems with explosiveness)"

I agree.

A lot of English language works also emphasise Russian antique battleships pointing to Admiral Nebogatov's Third Pacific Squadron: the battleship Imperator Nikolai I and the coastal defence ships Admiral Ushakov, General-Admiral Apraxin and Admiral Senyavin.

On paper, it might seem handy to have these along for the additional big guns. The coastal defence ships weren't TOO obsolete being only around 10 years old from completion with a max design speed of 16 knots.

But Imperator Nikolai I certainly was. Launched in 1889, her speed of 14 knots was 4 knots slower than the Japanese fleet which was a significant factor tactically.

It's fascinating how naval ships were so quickly outdated in that period of rapid evolution in naval design. A battleship might be obsolete after 3 years.

Compare that to the Age of Sail where you could have ships happily serving 30+ years. In WWII, most of the main powers still used WW1 vintage battleships that had been modernised.

Currently, the Russian navy still has in commission the Kirov-class battlecruiser Petr Velikiy. The first ship of the class, the Kirov was launched in 1977 although the Petr Velikiy was launched some 20 years later. It's still a class that's almost 40 years old - like the CSS Alabama and USS Monitor sailing off to fight in the Battle of Tsushima.

The USS Ticonderoga-class cruiser Bunker Hill was launched in 1985 and is still in commission.

It seems that in the modern age, it is the electronics and weapon systems that matter, not so much the platform.

Back to Admiral Nebogatov's antique squadron.

Imperator Nikolai I (flagship)

Laid down: 1886. Launched: 1889. Commissioned: 1891

Displacement: 9500 tonnes

Armament: Two 12-inch, four 9-inch, eight 6-inch

Speed: 14 knots

Admiral Ushakov, General-Admiral Apraxin and Admiral Senyavin

Laid down: 1892. Launched: 1893. Commissioned: 1895 (Admiral Ushakov)

Displacement: 4900 tonnes

Armament: Four 10-inch, four 4.7-inch

Speed: 16 knots

For comparison, the Mikasa

Laid down: 1899. Launched: 1900. Commissioned: 1902

Displacement: 15,100 tonnes

Armament: Four 12-inch, fourteen 6-inch

Speed: 18 knots

[drclaw]

A very good article by Kristian Fischer that summarises the Battle of Tsushima and the implications for naval tactics and development.

"Naval tactics, at least as concerns line of battle combat, were fundamentally altered as a result of Tsushima. Previously, massed naval combat had been thought of in Nelsonian terms; two long lines of enemy warships, pummelling each other to bits on parallel courses. After Tsushima, it became clear that maneuverability also had a part to play, and that faster, well-organised ships could outfight slower, more heavily armed ones."

"Tsushima also became the birth place of the Japanese ”decisive battle” doctrine, in which she would strive to conserve her battlefleet at all costs for a final confrontation with an enemy. Japan held on to this doctrine all the way through World War II, ironically whilst developing new ideas about the massed use of aircraft carriers that made ”decisive battle” obsolete."

"On the technological front, Tsushima was seen as a vindication for the advocates of big guns and speed in naval combat. Britain's First Lord of the Admiralty, Jon Fisher, used it as the final argument to force through the construction of the first of a brand new type of all big-gun battleship, the HMS Dreadnought. She was laid down a mere five months after the battle and joined the fleet the following year, rendering every older battleship obsolete. Interestingly enough, the Japanese laid down their first all big-gun ship, the Satsuma, two weeks before Tsushima, but took four years to complete her construction."

http://www.wargamer.com/article/3400/historical-article-the-battle-of-tsushima