Jump to content

All Death in Bunkers WW1


Boris
 Share

Recommended Posts

Time ago I heard about a horrible phenomenon that not very frecuently happened in closed bunkers of WW1. Use to kill ALL the personal were inside. It not was due t o a lack of O2 or too much COH. I thing it wax due to some kind of vibration. I have been seaching in many sides and any new about it... there is anybody who knows what I am talking about or knows all the phenomenon causes, etc...?

Thanks

Boris

Edited by Boris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boris

I'm sure that there were cases in which concussion [conmoción cerebral] killed men in closed bunkers, just the way in kills fish in water. I'm not sure whether the sealed in air would make that worse or not, as it would have nowhere to expand to if compressed by an explosion. Not sure about the physics, but do you understands what I mean?

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could be a similar effect to a firestorm, multiple concussions or use of a type of thermobaric weapon:

Thermobaric type weapons are very effective in confined spaces as they use the available oxygen to cause a devastating concussion and burn. So pretty effective on anyone inside the bunker - similar to explosions within flour mills or mines. Although I think these weapons were first used in WW2 but I suppose if the conditions were right a similar state could have existed within bunkers, trenches and tunnels in WW1 and only needed to be ignited.

I also suppose a bunker that is hit several times by high explosive may cause what's called SIS or second impact syndrome. A very high mortality rate particularly in younger people as the brain's capillaries cannot adjust themselves which leads to death or severe disabilities. Boxers, American footballers etc have been known to suffer from this.

Then there is the known firestorm effect. A short piece from the bombing of Brunswick in October 1944:

About three and a half hours after the bombing had finished, towards 6:30 in the morning, the firestorm reached its peak. The many fires in the city centre quickly grew together into one widespread conflagration.

In this area were six large bunkers and two air raid shelters, all quite overfull, in which 23,000 people had sought refuge from the attack. While these thousands waited in seeming safety inside their thick-walled shelters for the all-clear signal, outside the firestorm raged.

The fire brigade very soon realized the threat to these 23,000 trapped people – the fire was growing ever hotter, and the oxygen in the bunkers and shelters thereby ever thinner. The danger was clearly that the victims would either suffocate for lack of oxygen if they stayed in the bunkers, or be burnt alive if they tried to leave and escape through the firestorm outside.

Around 5 o'clock in the morning, before the firestorm had reached its full intensity, the idea of building a "water alley" was conceived by the Lieutenant of the Fire Brigade Rudolf Prescher. This "water alley" would allow the trapped people to flee their shelters for safe areas of the city. The water alley consisted of a long hose that had to be kept under a constant water mist to shield it against the fire's tremendous heat as the firefighters led the hose through to the shelters where the people were trapped. The reach of each of the little jets issuing from the holes in the hose overlapped each other making a continuous, artificial "rain zone".

The bunkers were reached towards 7 o'clock Sunday morning, after the fire storm had reached its greatest intensity. All the trapped people were still alive, but had no idea what lay outside for them. All 23,000 managed to get out of the danger zone and reach safe areas, such as the museum park. Only at the Schöppenstedter Straße 31 air shelter did the help come too late, where 95 of the 104 people had suffocated by the time the fire brigade reached them. The firestorm had been so intense in this particular part of the city that it had used up nearly all the oxygen, making it impossible to save more than nine people.

Maybe under intense bombardment a similar localised firestorm situation could have arisen within bunkers in WW1.

Edited by Spasm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boris

I'm sure that there were cases in which concussion [conmoción cerebral] killed men in closed bunkers, just the way in kills fish in water. I'm not sure whether the sealed in air would make that worse or not, as it would have nowhere to expand to if compressed by an explosion. Not sure about the physics, but do you understands what I mean?

Peter

Hello Peter, yes i understand what you mean. It could be something like. In this way, is also like when you go up in car to a mountain, the Other premise i remember is (I am not sure 100%), is that the phenomenon Kill ALL the people in the bunker. The preasure between the tympanic membrane sides change and an unplasant discomfort appear.

Yes, it could be.

Hello Stephen, I think you mean as we cal in forestry-fire thermal inversion that is than in low valleys zones:

http://watchingtheworldwakeup.blogspot.com.es/2009/01/all-about-inversions.html

Then first there is a lack of oxigen that kill people and when at last the pressure change and the oxygen get suddenly into the valley, it is like a big blast that kill the rest. It has happen in Canariand isalan and killed all the people were under the pressured layer.

Then I suppose than this phenomenon could be cause for a sudden change of preassure caused for the numerous blast around the Bunker in some special conditions (cause it was not a frecuent phenomenon)

Thanks very much, if I find smething more I will put here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found this.

http://graphitgrau.blogspot.com.es/2013/08/der-melaten-bunker.html

Will be better to use google traductor:

"
With a loud squeal opens Peter Lejeune, the master gardener of the city cemetery, the rusty door. A long vaulted corridor stretches before us - a passage which on 31 October 1944 during a bombing raid refuge-seeking wedding party led directly to his death. In the subterranean darkness I imagine the moment. About 100 people gathered on this day to celebrate with the happy wedding couple - then the air-raid alarm. Probably the wedding party in the short visited shelters felt safe. Far from it. A bomb hit exactly one weak point of the bunker - the air shaft - and its destructive force ripped a hole in the massive concrete. The shock wave from the detonation caused the lungs of people burst. They all died on the spot.

"

It could be something like this. I can't find more than this new in a german blog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boris,

I have heard of it described as 'blast overpressure injury' when in a confined area such as a trench or bunker a close shell can cause this kind of injury. The confinement amplifies the effect of the blast. It is most unpleasant.

Jock:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Jock and thanks for your point of view.

I have been reading about blast overpresure injuries and that is the one's that artillery produces, in adiction to shrapmel. It is possible through a wave of overpresure that produce internal injuries in affected personnel. I think that is you mean. This kind of danger, between others, is the one that bunker wants avoid to people refugee in this. But something fails and people die inside the bunker (imagine as you said

that the door is open, the damage should be much worst in the close inside of a Bunker.

There is systems in bunkers to prevent theorically this as a blast valve.

After all ideas exposed here,I think that the cases of death inside bunkers i was talking must be produced, not to just one phenomenon only, but several occasional because of bad luck, bad working of defense systems or accidents.

By example if you don't hermetically sealed doors, the overpressure ripples get inside the bunker and kill all life inside. The same for fire, empty or even sound. And this that supossed to be a protection against external danger, make much bigger the injuries.

As less this is my view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Blog Comments

    • As a theology student my professor, a much published former Naval chaplain, set us an essay, saying that if we could answer that successfully we would be guaranteed  a good degree "Which of the gospel writers was the biggest liar, discuss."   I got a good mark, but  don't want to be burned for heresy.   P
    • As my father used to say: "Tain't so much Pappy's a liar - he just remembers big."  
    • Brian: First, let me say that I always enjoy reading your blog and your "spot on" comments.  Another fine topic with such a broad expansion into so many different facets.  I had watched this a week or two ago and when reading your blog, it reminded me of this great quote.   There is a great video on the origins of "Who was Murphy in Murphy's Law"   Anyway, about mid way through this video, there is this great quote and I think it sums it up quite well to your statem
    • I've received word from the Curator that she has permission to re-open this summer.   We're already making plans for a November event at the Museum.   Michael
    • I recall I did the same on hot days at Old Fort York back in 1973-74 - wool uniforms, and at 90F they would let you take your backpack off.   Michael
×
×
  • Create New...