Jump to content

Grand cross 1870 Iron Cross


Recommended Posts

Hi all, a fairly simple question (I hope).

Grand cross stars, one was produced in 1813, awarded once to Blucher, one produced in 1914, awarded to Hindenburg, one produced but not awarded in 1939, none for 1957 for obvious reasons, but what about 1870? Was one produced or existed from that period and if so was it ever awarded? Information seems scant even though copies or repros seem to exist, are these fantasy pieces?

regards

Alex K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, you seem to confirm my thoughts, The reasons for asking the question is that I understand quality copies of now unobtainable original awards are/were made, but the attached image, seems like a nicely produced piece even though if true, it never existed, so why would someone go to the trouble of producing a non-existent award?

regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no news about a prototype of time, although we currently have fantasy pieces.

If the idea of the Star of the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross was reward the best general of each war, as Blücher and Hindenburg, I not understand why in 1871 Moltke was not awarded. He had already proved his brilliance also before in 1864 and 1866. It is true that received the Grand Cross of the Order Pour le Merite, but this is a very special award, given only a very short period of time, which was not sustained in subsequent wars, and can not be compared to the glory of receiving Star of the Gran Cross of the Iron Cross.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have a look in my files, found it, it was being offered by "media.liveauctiongroup.net), description, (Bit confusing)

"ORDER OF THE IRON CROSS-1914-THE HINDENBURG STAR-OUTSTANDING MUSEUM COPY * PAUL VON HINDENBURG WAS THE ONLY RECIPIENT OF THIS AWARD- 3 1/2" IN WIDTH-HAS IRON CROSS CENTER-WITH 1870-"W" AND CROWN- NICELY DETAILED STARBURST-REVERSE PIN SEEMS TO BE MARKED "DESCHLER & SOHN"--GREAT LOOKING MUSEUM DISPLAY COPY"

went unsold, and the pin is stamped Deschler & Sohn but it is double overstamped. In the end I may have partially answered my own question in respect that it is a copy, but a copy of something which appears may not have ever existed!

It would be interesting to find out if Deschler & Sohne,made it, or when they went out of business (if indeed they did), to determine if it's an old or new copy, if old, (and they were prolific during the TR period making medals etc ) why mess around producing a fantasy piece, just a few thoughts

regards

Alex

Just to pick up on Von Moltke yes I agree he most probably deserving of the award, but for some reason, it never happened. as an aside, attached an image from Gottmituns.net website showing a nice image with the grand cross PLM, if you look closely at the top button of his mantle you can make out the reflection of the photographer! Nice shiny buttons in those days

Edited by Alex K
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 1870 cross posted by Alex in post #8 is a complete fake.

It is sometimes called the pot hole fake or the Deschler fake

as you can find many many examples of this style all over

ebay with the Deschler mark on it as well as D&S, Muchen 9

and others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Greg, thanks for the info, it doesn't surprise me that the piece I posted is a fake. My main question was not so much about the piece shown per se but about the existence or otherwise of a specifically produced 1870 version of a Grand Cross star (in reality so to speak), that's why I qualified my original posting with the question is it a fantasy piece, which it appears to be from available information, someone obviously believes it to be a genuine part of the Iron Cross family, hence known copies up for sale, the difference with the images you posted, these are fakes of actual awards.

regards

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Blog Comments

    • Sounds great other than the Orange & Mango squash only because I prefer cran-pomegranate juice.
    • "(...) disgusting herbal concoction (...)" I took note of this description, to enrich my otherwise limited, English "Wortschatz"...
    • At work the standard indian tea such as PG tips is referred to as chimp tea. This goes back to the days when we had a Spanish girl working for us whose command of the English language was extremely limited. One lunch she said she was going to the shop could she get anything. I asked if she could get a pack of tea bags. She returned with some disgusting herbal concoction. I tried to explain what was required but without success. I then remembered PG tips had a picture of a chimpanzee on the packe
    • When I read Lapsang Souchong i decided to post something about these Tea . Many years ago I dont  know about Lapsang until I read James Michener book Centennial and the description of the savour of the Lapasang as a mix of tar and salt & smoked made me proof . It was exact ! and i liked it since then .
    • I have been known to drink Lapsang Souchong and Tea, Earl Grey, Hot... both "without pollutants". I normally have one mug of coffee in the morning, then spend the rest of the day drinking Orange & Mango squash (by the pint). Then evening comes and it's a pint, followed by red wine with dinner and sometimes a drop of Laphroaig afterwards.
×
×
  • Create New...