Ross Mather Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Recently purchased. A 1937 Coronation Gold Staff Officers Baton. King George VI monogram and 'Coronation 1937' underneath. Accompanied by a gilt wooden plaque indicating this belonged to R. L. Murray-Lawes. 2nd Lieutenant R. L. Murray-Lawes served with 2nd Company, 4th Battalion, Grenadier Guards during the First World War. The Staff officers were chosen from the three services - Army, Royal Navy and Royal Airforce. As well as the Baton they also wore a gold wool armband with a high quality finish. The duty of the Gold Staff Officer at the Coronation of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth was to Marshal the Coronation procession inside Westminster Abbey. Robert Letheridge Murray-Lawes finished his military career in the rank of Lieutenant- Colonel after the second world war.He was the owner of the 423 acre Old Park Mansion Estate near Dover, which at the outbreak of the second world war, he gifted to the Ministry of War. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Mather Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Whoops.....don't know how I have managed to do that with the text!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 A very intersting and rare item Ross, thanks for showinf it as I had never seen or heard of these before this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 These are not uncommon objects - however, what is rare is that he took the trouble to put his details with the mounting. There have been Ushers' Staffs for QE2, G6th , GVth, Edward 7th, Queen Victoria , Wm.4th, G4th and I think G3rd. They are a temporary appointment of Gentlemen who act as Ushers during the Coronation Ceremony in Westminster Abbey. The paint on the George 6th. was spray painted or lacquered and tends to flake off - perhaps think of a clear matt varnish. Good example Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Mather Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks for the information Mervyn. One of the main attractions for me was the fact that it had provenance. Would be nice now to try and find other rank different coloured staffs.....and perhaps the arm bands that were also worn. There are a couple of chips to the paint, so may look to follow your suggestions of protecting it with a layer of varnish. Best wishes..............Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Ross - this is the colour - I have never seen one in any other colour. The Duke of Norfolk is the Hereditery Grand Marshall of England and is responsible for organising all Royal Occasions. These include Coronations, Weddings , Jubilees etc.. He carries a special Baton - a separate one being made for each event. It's shape is based on the Batons shown on his coat of arms (see my post on his functions on this section .) I had the one for the occasion of the Wedding of the Prince of Wales in 1863 - he was later Edward 7th. He appoints the Gentlemen - who can be officers or civilians - to be the Ushers on all of these occasions. However, the Coronation is the one they have Batons. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Mather Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 What are your opinions on these? Group described as Steward's Coronation Batons. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Ross - in 40 + years of collecting I have never seen these patterns of Ushers' Rods. Personally, I would say modern items - intended to sell to collectors. However, you could double check with the Dean's Office at Westminster Abbey. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Mather Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Hi Mervyn. I have downloaded some photos and text taken from the website of 'The College of Arms' relating to the planning of a Coronation at Westminster Abbey. As you will see the reference and photo show that other coloured Staff were used by officers with other specific duties. The text is....". The arm brassards shown on the left were worn during rehearsals by (from top to bottom): Abbey staff; Gold Staff Officers; tailors and technical attendants; doctors and medical attendants.The congregation were marshalled and ushered in Westminster Abbey by Gold Staff Officers, and others had related responsibilities. They were marked out by the staves they carried. The Gold Staff Officers' staves were designed by the Goldsmiths' Company, following discussions between the company and the Earl Marshal's Office about aspects of their design and their cost. Shown here are drawings of designs for the staves of the Gold Staff Officers, alongside seven examples of different staves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Ross - the Brassards I can accept - they are all QE2 and changes will have been made to previous ceremonies. What I do have problems wiith are the Staves - which show Cyphers for King Edward and King George 5th. Had they been in use they would show up at auction along with the usual pattern. I think a little more research is needed ? As I said the Dean's Office and , of course, the Duke of Norfolk. All very interesting . Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Ross: Just bought these in December. The College of Arms tells me that the top one is most likely a Green Staff Officer's baton. 1911 Investiture of the Prince of Wales (First investiture ceremony held in over 600 years). Sadly, their information on the 1911 ceremony is light at best, so they couldn't tell me who the Officers were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hi Ross, I have read your thread with interest and have uploaded a couple of photos of armlets from my RAF collection which you may find if interest. The inscription on the first photo is written on the lowest armlet in the second photo. the central armlet is that of a GVIR usher and used for ceremonial duties etc. The top armlet is, I believe, for the coronation of GVR but I am by no means certain. If you can advise me either to the contrary or confirm, I would be most grateful. With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 I have nothing useful to add to the discussion of the batons, but on reading the whole thread I was tickled by Mervyn's description of the Ushers: They are a temporary appointment of Gentlemen who act as Ushers during the Coronation Ceremony in Westminster Abbey. 'temporary Gentlemen', of course, being the sneering description accorded war time commissioned officers by their long term, regular Army brethern. We miss both his eruditon and his wit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Mather Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hello both. I have not been on this site for some time and was saddened to learn of the passing of Mervyn. I have known Mervyn since about 1980, and often corresponded with him. In the old days this was by way of a pen, paper and envolope that you'd put a stamp on!!! Rest In Peace Mervyn. Fond memories of a kind and generous man. In answer to the two above items. I have only ever added one of these batons to my collections on the one occasion. I have not researched them or their useage and was only given information by Mervyn. As such, cannot add much about the baton or the brassards Im afraid. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Ross, take a look at your baton, if you have it handy. Is there a metal rod through the middle of it? My Green Staff baton does, as does some of the other Gold Staff batons, and it may be an indicator of originality, as opposed to 'collector' pieces, as Mervyn dubbed them. (I think the George V in that picture of the three you posted was the only authentic one, unless the style was replicated over time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Recently found a George V 1911 Coronation staff at auction. Its dimensions and style match the 1911 Investiture staff I've had for the last couple years, complete with the metal rod at both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rala2 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 10/12/2014 at 02:42, Mervyn Mitton said: Ross - in 40 + years of collecting I have never seen these patterns of Ushers' Rods. Personally, I would say modern items - intended to sell to collectors. However, you could double check with the Dean's Office at Westminster Abbey. Mervyn This is rather an old thread and Mervyn, bless his soul, has passed on, but I can identify your batons for you. All are absolutely genuine and certainly not modern spurious collector pieces. On the left you have an usher's baton from an early Order of the Bath investiture ceremony; in the centre an usher's baton from the 1947 wedding of Princess Elizabeth and Philip of Greece (Prince Philip to us now!) with a metal Princess' coronet surmounting her initial; to the right is a Gold Staff Officer's baton from the Coronation of King George V. All fine examples and scarce as well; I have examples in my collection, but it took some doing to find them. Cheers, Richard from Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Richard, Thanks for your input on this thread. It's nice to see another baton collector. Would you have any thoughts on this piece I picked up at auction last year? Duke of Norfolk's baton, gold with black ends, with 48 beneath his crest. I was told it was Victorian, possibly for a Coronation or Investiture ceremony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldstream Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 This Edward VII Coronation Baton currently listed in a local auction to me should anyone be interested (no link to the Seller or Auction House on my part) https://denhams.com/lot/169/august-2018 Regards Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldstream Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Just to keep up to date with current prices, this item hammered for £170 less commission. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I wonder if it's the same one sold by Campbell Auctions in 2011. The estimate on that was £120 - 150, but I don't know what the hammer was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldstream Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Unfortunately I didn't get chance to examine the piece at the viewing days, am collecting a few other pieces from them in the next few days so will try and make a few enquiries as to where it came from. Regards Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldstream Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Just to update this, no real surprises in that the Auction House were unable to help regarding the origin of this item. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbreak Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I can confirm this coronation baton from Edward VII's coronation is the same one sold at Campbell's in 2011. The scratches on the wood match exactly. There were 170 Gold Staff Officers at the coronation, and I now have a full list of those appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Walter Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I have found in my late mother's effects one of the oxide-red/azure-blue wedding baton/staves, identical to the one you show above and almost certainly used by my Grandfather; JTS Hall (First Commander in Chief of the Indian Navy) who would have been around then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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