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El Cid


Boris
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"El Cid" is a diplomatic game for x players based in this spanish medieval mercenarie of XI century.

 

The play is by mail, with a judge (human) that is the person in charge to make the orders (turns) send by the players, compare its, judge the rules when people don`t agree in same point, battles, etc...

 

 

I attach some draws made by now. It si going to finish in two or three months and and maybe have a translation in english.

 

I  wiil inform here of the develop of the game, etc...

 

 

 

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-98478700-1421968761.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-98478700-1421968761.jpg

 

All are sketches, then they are not exactly the same final game draws.

 

Regards

 

Boris

 

Edited by Boris
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Hello Claudius

 

I have to say before go on that you are my  favourite roman emperor.  ;)

 

About the game , thanks very much. 

 

My first intention. is not  to make a board-game, althought is a good idea. I want to make a post-game. I mean by that is a kind of game you send the player's orders (troops mouvements, economic matters, etc..). By mail . Mainly by internet, but depending the personal state of the players, also by ordinary post or in hand. By now all the player are in the same city and are near to me (I am going to represent the roll of judge). 

 

The diference between a board game and a post mail game is that you have as less one week of time to hand over the orders to the judge. Then the players are more slow thinking have the opportunity to win too. Not only, the borad quick thinkers. Normaly as there is more time to thinks the quality of orders is better and  more exciting cause in this week players can talk between then to make alliances, etc... This means that mainly is a DIPLOMATIC game.

 

 

I have finish now to read all the books i have find aboutr this period of spanish medieval history. 

 

Don't worry that I will have you up to date about the game develop.

 

Regards 

 

Boris

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First:

 

Historical Introduction

 

The Spain we are going to have as game-scenarieis the one of XI century.

 

¿What is happening in this century)

 

The Califate of  Cordova, that was the only politic body that has Al-Andalus (the Spain rule by muslims) has falled for mainly internal reasons. Muslim world is prone to continous secessions. eemmber that the  Califate of Cordova comes of a emirate omeya departure from the Bagdag Abassie Califate. The gobernors of big and not so big cities take advantage of the weakness of central power to make his own kingdoms. The Christhian Kindongs are very interested, of course in that secession. Also the division of the muslims in Arabs, Berebers ad Slavs, mainly, whos`s relations has been always as problematic, contribute to that event.

 

Another fact begins. The christian kingdoms, that was on the defensive begins to be stronger than the muslim power. And a general idea that before doesn't existed born in Christian minds: "The muslims are invaders that have to leave Spain". 

Begins with a menatlity of crusade the reconquest (not the conquest) of Spain since two main points: The Castilian-León-Galicia kingdom that appeal to the Visighotic Kingdom legitimacy, and the pyrenean bastions that have a Carolingian origin and was not in the start united, but are represented first by the kingdom of Navarre, and the catalonian counties. After the Navarre kingdom create the Kingdom of Aragón from the countie of the same name and others.

 

 

(Will be continued)

Edited by Boris
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After will talk about (El Cid) That Means "the Lord".

 

I was near a heart attack,I though I had lost all my scanned collections, of maps in the HD. No problem at last, glup¡

 

Now I will include some fonts from atlases which are essential to make a good map. Here they are (a part):

 

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-28065800-1422391416.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-49707000-1422391428.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-64239500-1422391447.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-70048400-1422391463.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-75013500-1422391480.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-77019000-1422391499.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-35874100-1422391533.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-63529700-1422391551.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-66025300-1422391572.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-11091500-1422391577.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-47663900-1422391581.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-19035800-1422391607.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-05047500-1422391639.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-97028700-1422391650.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-4508-0-45675800-1422391617.jpg

 

 

 

You will need too for the pieces, some epoch figures and artistical guides...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Boris
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I made sometimes a data-base for maps and figures:

 

 

And the bibliography:

 

Bibliografía:

Autor

María J. Viguera

Título

Aragón Musulmán: La presencia del Islam en el valle del  Ebro.

I.S.B.N.

84-86778-06-9

 

Autor

Robert Mantran

Título

La expansión musulmana (siglos VII al XI)

I.S.B.N.

84-335-9329-3

 

Autor

Lucien Musset

Título

Las Invasiones: el segundo ataque contra  la  Europa cristiana.

I.S.B.N.

84-335-9321-8

 

Autor

Juan Vernet

Título

Lo que Europa debe al Islam de España

I.S.B.N.

84-96489-47-7

 

Autor

Josef  Fleckenstein

Título

La caballería y el mundo caballeresco

I.S.B.N.

84-323-1222-3

 

Autor

Charles-Emmanuel Dufourcq

Título

La vida cotidiana de los árabes en la Europa medieval.

I.S.B.N.

84-7880-349-1

 

Autor

Richard Fletcher

Título

El Cid

I.S.B.N.

84-86763-22-3

 

Autor

Julio Valdeón, José María Salrach, Javier Zabalo

Título

HISTORIA DE ESPAÑA  Feudalismo y consolidación de los pueblos hispánicos (siglos xi-xv).

I.S.B.N.

84-335-9424-9

 

Autor

Jacinto Bosh Vilá

Título

Los Almorávides

I.S.B.N.

84-338-2451-1

 

 

And tables for data in MSword. (by example):

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello Claudius

 

I have learn from masters and you can be sure you'll learn if you are interested. Thanks anyway for your attention. :cheers:

 

You have to think I am speking with myself, Its mean that new ideas can appear... if you have something to  say, go on, please.

 

El Cid. Of course is going to be a player, but who was in reality.  His human character is too far from us to rebulid him, but we knows he was one and not at all the most important in Christian mercenarie in Europe at those far  times. But

You have  to restrict his character to the real players you have in this moment.

 

They are not actors, they are players, then it is better to chose the character more like to a mercenarie (think you want of it) among them.

 

I have two candidates. As the play is not going to be too long... about five years. It is not necessary that be too tenacious. Because there is people very intelligent that when lost the first war or even the first battle look for an excuse and go out of the play.

The two candidates have a character like a velociraptor: Quick taking decisions, very clever and always have two or three plans for the same war. I will on thinking on them... other detail is that they are friends, then surely (not 100%) they get an understanding.  One is not only clever but very intelligent... maybe this should be better as Taifa of Zaragoza (The Cid works all his mercenarie life for this person), player that needs more resources. The problem is that they are not too diplomatic and it is important in the two rolls.

 

(Will continous)

Edited by Boris
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Hello Boris,

 

I am quite out of my element here.  I can't remember reading much about the subject and my earliest recollections of this time period and events is watching the Charlton Heston movie.

 

Play the game: If only I did have the time.  It would be entertaining to play your game, and learn along as it progressed.  However I am quite engaged right now with my own "campaigns" right now: mainly, the pursuit of knowledge in the collecting field.

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All right Claudius

 

The movie is made under supervisio of Menénded Pidal that is a spanish intelectual that are more interesting ,in this particular case, of make mythologie more than History (anyway he was a very good historian at international level). More aproximate to J. R. R. Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings that to caht the real Cid  history. Anyway we we'll see that point,

 

Better to have a caotic comment of the elements of play, I am going then to prepared a squeme ordering the game and after comment each problem. Just give me a litle time to advance.

 

If you want to play, it would be great... we will talk about this.

 

Regards

 

Boris

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I have found in english a good synopsys of all this matter:

 

 

I attach the main text that concern us:

 

 

"The very name FA Cid sums up much of the special character of medieval Spanish warfare. It comes from the Arabic al sqyyid,, master or chieftain, and seems to have been given to Rodrigo de Vivar by his Muslim foes. But was it given in recognition of El Cid's victories against Islam in the ‘Reconquista’ or because this Castilian nobleman was as content to serve beside the Muslims as to fight them?

 

Rodrigo de Vivar came from the lesser nobility of Castile. He was not one of the great magnates, and his successes were sometimes distasteful to such barons. The popular view sees El Cid as a Christian champion whose early victories gave leadership of Spain to Castile rather than Leon, but who was then exiled to Aragon through the machinations of his rivals. El Cid was supposedly obsessed with the idea of a unified Spain and the defeat of the ‘Moors*, while his capture and government of Muslim Valencia is portrayed as an example of cultural harmony under Christian leadership. He is also believed to have halted the Almoravid, African (and consequently barbarian) tide which threatened to engulf Spain.

 

Another view of El Cid comes from those who study the civilisation of al Andalus (Muslim Spain and Portugal), some of whom note his acceptance of Arab-Andalusian culture, and portray him almost as an Andalusian rather than Spanish hero. Perhaps El Cid was simply an adventurer, one of many seen on the turbulent Christian-Muslim frontier, comparable to the Portuguese Giraldo Sempavor—who seized the Muslim city of Badajoz in the 11bos, only to lose it to the Almohadcsjust as El Cid's followers lost Valencia to the Almoravids.

 

The story of the Reconquista, or the Christian conquest of the Iberian peninsula, is a classic case of history being written by the winning side, l or hundreds of years the Muslim period was dismissedas an alien interlude, the Muslim Andalusians simply being conquerors justly reconquered. In fact these Andalusians were of mixed origin. The Muslims were descended from local converts, Arab and Berber immigrants, and northern or eastern European slaves. Those who had remained Christian were called Mozarabs; and there was also a sizeable Jewish population. Family and tribal divisions were now political rather than ethnic, the entire community being Arabised in culture, though generally speaking an early form of Spanish in their homes. By the i ith century the local élite was largely demilitarised, the army being drawn almost entirely from European slaves and ‘new* Berbers from North Africa (see MAA 125 The Armies of Islam yth-nth Centuries). Small wonder that when the Umayyad Caliphate of Cordova collapsed early in the 1 ith century, it was the Berber and Slav army which fought over the pieces. In 1031 the Berbers and their puppet Caliph were defeated, and Andalus fragmented into numerous [jetty states known as taifa kingdoms.

 

Meanwhile the situation among the almost

equally fragmented states of the Christian north was changing. Each faced different problems. The king of Aragon had been politically weak and chronically short of money since the 10th century. Urban militias appeared as early as the 9th century in Leon, and were certainly a major feature in 11 th century Castile. Such forces included mounted Caballeros and infantry peons. Caballeros were summoned more often than peons while southern frontier cities faced heavier military burdens than those in the north. The 1 ith and 12th centuries were a time of population expansion in Christian Europe, and northern Spain was soon relatively overpopulated (though the cities of the Muslim south were still much bigger than those of the Christian north). Christian confidence and aggression was also seen in the Iberian peninsula. Yet there was no real Crusading attitude before the 12th century, and even then religious motives were often secondary to political or economic calculations.

 

In this explosive situation warfare was dominated by mountain ranges and great rivers which tended to provide defensive frontiers, while a road system created by the Romans and extended by the Muslims channelled major campaigns. Spain’s fierce climate also meant that most fighting took place in summer or autumn. Castles varied greatly in size, some defending bridges, fords or passes while the biggest served as major operational bases. Castles were not, however, the target of expansion: cities were the goal of all conquerors, their seizure usually following years of raiding, the destruction of surrounding agriculture, a blockade of trade and finally a siege.

 

Iberian warfare differed from that of the rest of western Europe in its emphasis on light cavalry, light infantry (including archers), a lack of body armour and on raiding rather than pitched battles. As the Christians pushed south of the sierras and onto the high plains, long-distance raiding cabalgadas by cavalry forces increased in importance. The peninsula had, of course, been a cavalry arena since the time of the Ibcro-Cclts.1 Their tactics of repeated attack and retreat can be compared to the Roman cursores et defensores, the Arab karr ivafan and the later Spanish torno fuya. Of course these traditions were constantly refined, the spread ofc

superior Barb and Arab horses giving even greater advantage to a cavalryman, culminating in the jinete light cavalry of later medieval and renaissance Spain. Both Spaniards and Andalusians adopted the Middle Eastern palate-curb bit in the 11 th century, though Andalusian saddles and bridles seem to have been similar to those of Christian Iberia.

Weapons like maces, cavalry axes, sophisticated infantry weapons, composite bows and a continued use of javelins also set Iberia apart from the rest of western Europe. Yet the region was not militarily isolated, swords being imported from many parts of Europe while equipment also came from the rest of the Muslim world. In terms of armour Iberia also differed slightly from countries to the north. Separate mail coifs, round helmets of one-piece construction or extended to protect the sides and back of the head were quite advanced and probably betrayed Middle Eastern influence. On the other hand iron helmets were rare and expensive in the Christian slates, while hardened leather defences seem to have been widespread on both sides of the frontier. The hide coats mentioned in some sources

 

 

The loose feudal structure of Spanish military organisation is reflected in troubadour epics of the period, including the Poema del Cid. Even the area's frontiers, particularly those between Christendom and Islam, were not very rigidly defined, each side holding towns while the heavily raided zone between fell to whoever was stronger at the time.

 

On the other hand French military influence was now felt, most strongly in Catalonia. A cavalry élite adopted the tall saddle, straight-legged riding position and couched lance of typical 12th century knights, plus shock-cavalry tactics of close-packed formations designed to break enemy ranks by weight or momentum. Mail hauberks became more common, though scale armour probably remained in use and may indicate a survival of Arab-Islamic ideas. Quilted armour was certainly used, cither alone or with mail, and clearly reflected Islamic influence. Brightly coloured cloaks were a mark of the military class but were normally removed before combat. The adoption of ‘modern’ cavalry tactics was not always an advantage, however. The difficulty of remounting when using a tall saddle and long stirrup landed many a horseman in trouble when facing lighter and more agile Muslim cavalry.

 

Another, perhaps more significant military development was the widespread adoption of crossbows during the nth century: Spaniards probably led the way but Andalusians were only a few years behind. As elsewhere in Europe this led to a decline in ordinary archery; yet for various reasons, such as the remoteness of some regions and continued influence from North Africa, simple archery survived right up to the 15th century. Morale and fighting spirit were strengthened by a canlador who rode ahead of the troops, singing heroic tales such as that of El Cid.

 

The Christian offensive which began in the mid-1 ith centurv followed the tradition of earlier wars and involved two forms of campaign. First there were raids of varying magnitude designed to seize valuables, livestock and prisoners; such expeditions were carried out by mounted troops, and were of limited duration. Then there were longer-term campaigns intended to seize and hold territory;

more troops were involved, and naturally included infantry, siege engineers, baggage trains and the wherewithal to resist counter-attack. Muslim armies operated in the same way and both sides developed systems to exchange or ransom prisoners. By the 1130s Christian frontier towns incorporated such regulations in their charters and most of the Military Orders also had special centres for this purpose. Early in the 13th century a special Order of St. Mary of Mercy was created specifically to negotiate ransoms. Muslim, Christian and Jewish doctors served on both sides, while towns built hospitals to care for the wounded. Such concerns may have made I berian warfare more civilised than elsewhere in Europe, but there were many darker sides.

Leon

By the 12th century the Spanish kingdoms assumed that a total Reconquista was inevitable. Eachkingdom claimed legal descent from the Visigothic

 

state overthrown by Muslim Arabs in the 8th

 

#

 

century, but Leon claimed more: its rulers projected themselves as ‘Emperors’ over all Iberian states, Christian and Muslim. Leon had indeed taken the lead against Andalus, but its claim to empire sounded increasingly hollow as the nth century drew to a close. Nevertheless Leon remained a potent force and its military aristocracy became increasingly feudalised. Fiefs became hereditary, though in the 12th century a knight could still pass on his arms, armour and horse to an heir only if he died in action if he died in bed his gear reverted to the king. Urban militia infantry forces were, however, relatively undeveloped in Leon even by the 13th century.

TO

Castile

 

The military systems of neighbouring Castile were rooted in those of Leon. In the late 1 ith century a king or baron could give arms to any lice man in return for military service, while equipment could also be captured directly from the foe or purchased with the profits of booty. The division of spoils was, in fact, carefully regulated throughout Castile. Different forms of warfare were reflected in summons to service, b'onsado or hueste were formal expeditions on horseback, while defensive actions against enemy raids were called apellido. Anubda and arrobda entailed siege, pitched battle, frontier guard or garrison work. Failure to answer any such summons led to a fine or fonsadero, this eventually evolving into a form of tax with which a ruler could pay professional troops.

 

From the mid-nth to mid-12th centuries the Castilian army basically consisted of noble caballeros hidalgos who fought as vassals in return for fiefs or pay. Many, like the king himself, had their own professional private armies or mesnadas. These in turn were led by members of the infanzones or lesser nobility such as El Cid. Of increasing importance were non-noble but prosperous caballeros villanos who fought in return for tax exemptions. They could, however, lose such status if they failed to attend a twice yearly military inspection properly equipped and mounted. Urban infantry ptdones also fought in return for privileges. The juez or leader of an urban force was usually appointed by the king, but each city section elected its own alcalde or leader when it joined a campaign. Other vital militia auxiliaries included the atalayeros scouts. They were something of an élite, mounted on the swiftest horses and paid a special salary. Like many Spanish militarv terms these titles often come from Arabic. During a raid these forces were divided into two parts, one of which built and defended a base camp while the rest, the algara or raiders, rode on to do what damage they could. Rules governing a city’s involvement in warfare were enshrined in its fuero charter; these covered information-gathering, espionage, the division of spoils, compensation forBarghawata were eventually crushed by the Almoravids after a fierce struggle, Ceuta falling in 1078/9. This left the fierce Saharan Almoravids poised on the Straits of Gibraltar. Elsewhere in North Africa a Fatimid withdrawal to Egypt and an invasion by nomad Beni Hilal tribes added to the confusion.

 

The fall of Toledo to the Castilians and of Valencia to El Cid sent shock waves throughout the Muslim west. But what could be done? The taifa states were neither strong nor particularly rich; some had armies of only a hundred or so men. A few employed North African or Christian Spanish mercenaries, Seville being one. But Seville was more aggressive and expansionist than the rest, ap-

parently hoping to reunite Andalus under its own rule. Others, like Saragossa, allied themselves with their Christian neighbours, getting some assistance in return. Warfare was not, in fact, a normal way of settling disputes among the taifa states and when faced by Christian threats they paid tribute, made pacts and encouraged inter-Christian rivalries. Some taifa states, including Seville, retaliated with raids, albeit rare and often unsuccessful ones.

 

None the less the taifa states did have warrior elites though there was less class differentiation than in the Christian north, family or tribal tics being more important. Military tenancies, often centred around small castles, were increasingly hereditary, while garrisons were paid as well as owing semi-feudal obligations to the local qa’id governor or castle-holder. Towns were a more important source of military strength. These were similarly dominated by great families, as is the case in much of the Middle East today, while even the Mozarab Christian nobility seems to have risen in military importance. Though the role of infantry increased as Islam went on the defensive, the most prestigious soldiers were still cavalry. These followed a code of conduct similar to the ‘knightly' ideals of their Spanish counter-parts. Their skills, organisation and equipment of mail and quilted armour, long swords and spears, heavy shields and helmets, were clearly comparable. Face-covering mail coifs are mentioned, as are leather lamt shields imported from the Sahara, while crossbows were now the most important infantry weapon."

Edited by Boris
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Some points to treat when make the rules:

 

Armies (Christian and Muslim):

-Generals

-King of troops: Infantry, cavalry,etc...

-Manpower

-Troop strengStrength

-Mouvements (terrain)

-Sieges and fortress, cities.

-Raids (algaradas)

-Battles

 

_Generals: The general of course is strategically and tactically is the human player. But each player could have one or more generals (markers). By example the castilian player could have The King and would have the "Alférez". Then :¿How this marker can have influence in the war... it depend how you translate the real streng of troups to the game: I think , as in the game "Empires in arms" the troop moral is the best value to do it. The elite aristocratic cavalry, that is one of the best troops can have the maximun, by example 5 points of moral, and some variable inthe combat: by example -1 in moral when they charge over infantry. It means that an elite cavalry marker when charge over infantry automatically ake away one point of moral to this infantry. The general could give +1 in moral to all the army by example.

These crashes beteween troops can be resolve with combat tables and fisically over a special board as I wiil attach soon.

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Some maps more practical:

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-4508-0-73595800-1422793332.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-4508-0-79297000-1422793343.jpg

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-4508-0-85587300-1422793303.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-4508-0-46672900-1422793318.jpg

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In the battle-board that use to be for important battles.

And in this period all battles were important like Mazinkerta for Byzantines or Sagrajas for Alfonso VI, cause you can loose your army that have a cost of  years of training, and is irreplaceable in some corps as cavalry, by example the "Catafractos" in Byzance Army

 

I come back to the board.

In few words each army have some spaces (Rearward, wings, centre) That are connected between then and with the enemy space. Usually if you occuppy the enemy rearward, you win. The pieces have a mouvement speed (By example, Cavary two spaces wing-rearward-wing, Leader two, infantry one), an army moral, that is the addition of all pieces moral divided between the number of pieces, bear in mind the leader moral and motivators and a Combat table to calclate the micro-battles wing asssault-wing, etc....

 

Sorry I have the impression that it have to be chinese fro people...

 

Please there is somebody that knows i'm talking about?. Maybe among my bad english and that the matter is not easy at all I have to change the way to explain.

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