EK2s by M. Hansen and Koch&Bergfeld - Help with the Mystery

[kasle]

All, who are in this hobby at least for a while, know and mostly like the fancy screwbacks by M. Hansen. They are easily identified by the typical screw, as well as by unique core, that was used only by company M. Hansen and by company Koch & Bergfeld, Hansen´s subsidiary in Bremen during (and probably shortly after) ww1. It´s very easy to tell which "Hansen type" EK1 was produced particularly by Koch & Bergfeld, because these are not marked with letters "M. Hansen", but with so called "Pedestal Vase" symbol used by company (now independent) Koch & Bergfeld up to now (see the pics).

Unfortunately, similar luck is not accessible between EK2s with the same core and frame. Although we can (sometimes) find them on market and easily identify by the core and the distinctive frame (that has crunch beads at inner corners similar to AWS/Juncker), the marking on them doesn´t help us at all.

 

[kasle]

But there surely are two types of them. The first feature that differs them, is the marking. One type is marked with lazy Y (if I can borrow adjective from Juncker terminology), second one with square incused mark "Fr", that is different from "Fr." mark (attributed to Friedländer) only by the missing dot at the end.

The maker´s mark is not the only difference. Both types vary in some other features. Lazy "Y" marked crosses have pebbled core, Imperial size ring and platform for the jumpring. "Fr" marked cores have a most common core finnish, TR size of jumpring and no "hump".

Here they are. "Y: on the left, "Fr" on the right.

 

[kasle]

Here are more details of "Lazy Y" marked cross.
 

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by kasle

[kasle]

Here is the "Fr" type.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by kasle

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

 

just some wild brainstorming, and probably way off.....

the "Y" is probably the closest you can get to a "Pedestal Vase" on an EK2 ring? :-)

[Chris Boonzaier]

P.S.

I am really an award document guy so I cannot claim to follow the Crosses in great detail, so no surprise that the Koch & Bergfeld identification is new to me...

[kasle]

In search for an answer, which type can be attributed to M. Hansen, and which type to Koch & Bergfeld, I even wrote to K&B company. I didn´t receive the answer, of course. I´d say, no wonder. Company is now on the top of market, producing high-end silverware and sport trophies (the made the trophies for UEFA Champions League, as well as for winners of German football and handball leagues) and probably are not interested in ressurecting "old sins".

Still I would see very important to find the answer which type of EK2 is Hansen and which is K&B. It is not wonder that the K&B identification is new to you Chris. Up to now, I have found literally no info about the fact that there are two variants of "Hansen" EK2 crosses.

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by kasle

[kasle]

Lazy Y is my "horse" for Koch & Bergfeld as well. But not by the marking. If you turn "Fr" marked cross upside down, the mark resembles "Pedestal vase" as well.

For me the hint is that K&B marked EK1 from the first post has pebbled core. But if somebody finds Hansen marked EK1 with pebbled core, this hint is gone.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2015 by kasle