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    rusty old sword


    Hippy

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    Hello Hippy,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Nothing is rubbish when it comes to original swords, even ones that have been neglected or "lost" to the weather for years.  I can't really identify this particular sword at the moment  from your photo but it is worthwhile keeping.  Do not attempt to clean this sword as any use of an abrasive will ruin it further.  It is at a point where it has probably stabilized and any attempt to restore it will cause it further damage to the point where it may actually end up being rubbish.

    Any chance of a photo of the whole sword?  It may help in the identification.  Perhaps one of the other members will recognize the handle and hand guard but a photo of the whole sword will tell us much more.

    Thanks for posting this interesting specimen.

    Regards

    Brian

     

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    Thanks for posting this second photo.  Now I am completely at a loss to identify the sword but with some luck perhaps another member will be able to held.  I am leaning toward Gremany as a country of origin but that is more guess rather than an educated opinion. 

    Good luck Hippy.

    Regards

    Brian

     

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    I think the bit at the top has been bent down towards the blade and would normally have been a bit straighter.  Looking at other swords on the web would suggest this

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    I agree with Brian that there is a possibility of it being a German officers or, NCO's sword.    I would also put a possibility of it being French - basing this on the curve of the hilt. You are right that the guard has been dropped and has bent inwards  -  not a great problem considering the state of the weapon.  The hilt has lost it's wire binding, the blade has totally rusted and there is no scabbard.   I hope you didn't pay too much ?  Personally I would oil it and hang it on a wall - something to keep the neighbours in order............    Mervyn

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    Sadly anything you might try will probably result in what is an interesting object becoming a piece of trash, good for the kids to play with or as a standard for the support of your tomatoes to grow.

    Some have tried 4 Zero (0000) steel wool and a light machine oil such as "3 in 1" and lightly rubed the rusted surface.  This may remove any scale rust but will also leave a surface that will look like it has had a clear coat applied.  This shinny dark look is not considered desirable by almost any collector. and is seen as being "over cleaned"  I would simply see if any loose rust can be removed using somthing that will not scratch such as one of those bread-bag plastic tags and lightly see if the loose rust can be lifted off.  When I say loose rust I mean and rust that is almost ready to fall off on its own.  Other than that do yourself and the artifact a favour and do nothing. If you can't stand having it around in that condition then send it to me and I'll do nothing with it except appreciate it for what istis (I'll pay postage).  I am only joking about sending it to me; keep it as it is and see it for what it is, an artifact of a time long past and an era surrounded by the myth of the romance and glory of battle.

    Regards

    Brian

     

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    Hippy  -  the definitive book on British Army swords is by Brian Robson and has the title Swords of the British Army .    Your sword is shown with both hilts intact and far from being a load of 'old rubbish' it turns out to be the 2nd rarest pattern sword in the British Army.

    With full acknowledgements to Mr. Robson I am showing his picture and short write-up.

    Despite it's condition your sword is obviously quite rare as an example.  Before doing anything to it, take advice.

    004.thumb.JPG.31c09b151a26211d6078902a59

    The write-up that goes in the book with the picture :

    005.thumb.JPG.3c7d25acaed2d901a779eb0a08

    If this is the 2nd rarest pattern , then the rarest is the Mountain Artillery sword.  I have had several in the shop, but they are certainly rare  -  and valuable.

    For reference I thought I would also show Mr Robson's photo and write-up.

    006.thumb.JPG.b34e08a9101ced5d00f09447fa

    007.thumb.JPG.98b3feca4f92805b8e90d93d7f

    008.thumb.JPG.13a53eb70a2576e49dacd3e6c2

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    I would start by writing to the Imperial War Museum  -  their address will be on the net. You must include a photo.     Also you could write to Christie's Auction House in London. Let us know how you get-on.     Mervyn 

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    I've emailed the imperial war museum however, there is a caveat on their site that states that they will not comment on items not in their inventory :(

     

     

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    • 7 months later...

    Hi,

    No updates really.  Can't trace the history so it's been sat behind my desk for a while.  Saw a good condition sword sold on flea bay a few months ago for £470 whilst I was searching.  been a bit busy so may look at it again soon

     

     

     

     

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    I hadn't seen this thread before and, though I'm setting myself up for a fall here, I'm not sure that Mervynn's Identification of the sword is accurate.  His 'Hopital' example seems to have two bars showing on the hilt, one curved [in front] and the second with a right angle in it, which your sword doesn't appear to have.  Sadly, swords are always tough even when the examples are in prime shape because so many are so similar.

     The hilt on your is generally described as a 'stirrup hilt' I think, which may be a tiny bit of help.  Presumably the only real way to get a value would be to offer it for sale, which I think is not your intent.  Discouraging! :(

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    4 hours ago, peter monahan said:

    I hadn't seen this thread before and, though I'm setting myself up for a fall here, I'm not sure that Mervynn's Identification of the sword is accurate.  His 'Hopital' example seems to have two bars showing on the hilt, one curved [in front] and the second with a right angle in it, which your sword doesn't appear to have.  Sadly, swords are always tough even when the examples are in prime shape because so many are so similar.

     The hilt on your is generally described as a 'stirrup hilt' I think, which may be a tiny bit of help.  Presumably the only real way to get a value would be to offer it for sale, which I think is not your intent.  Discouraging! :(

    it has the two bars.  I can see where they were snapped off.  I'm 90% certain it's an 1861 Hospital Corp sword now.  |I may try to sell it if my next mission to find it's history fails.  That will have to wait until April though

     

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