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K. A. G. - maker of Iron crosses from Bratislava?


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If I remember correctly, K.A.G. is considered as unknown maker of Iron crosses. Browsing the web I found some references, that crosses marked K.A.G. were produced by company Franz Kühmayer A.G. in Poszony (today Bratislava, Slovakia). They were ordered by Königliche Eisenbahn Zentralamt and started being delivered since April 1917. I am posting the link to one of the sources in German. Author of the post with this info (Thorsten) is claiming he will show the evidence in his book "Eisernes Kreuz 1. class version 1914". Post is from 2012, so the book should be out now, Does anybody know this book?

http://feldgrau.pytalhost.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-28885.html

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Hi,

If provable it would be a very interesting fact,

at the moment it seems to be a very interesting theory.

I would be very interested in seeing any backup information as I am sceptical ... it may be correct, but it would be something totally off the wall methinks....

 

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the book is actually a two volume set of approx 530 and 600 pages. i have the russian language edition

he covers this on page 156 of volume one. 

i wish i spoke russian....i've the alarming feeling that i have overlooked far more than this snippet of info

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Yes, Chris. For me, being Slovak, it is very interesting to find out whether some EKs were produced in today´s Slovakia or not. But I am sceptical as well - K.A.G.s were always considered as early crosses. But according to that source they were delivered only since April 1917, i. e. late in the war....

I´ve got in touch with this story on ebay where one EK2 KAG is listed with this background like it was well known fact. So I googled the name of producer and found some more matches. I thought, I missed something...

Hi Eric,

Thank you for the info. I know Konstantin from Russian forums. He posted some great entries there. Thanks to my communist education I still can read Russian fluently. If you post the scan or photo of that page (pages) from his book, I would translate it in return.

Miro

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  • 4 years later...

I do not have any of Konstantin's books, as I could not read a single word по-русски, unfortunately. I'd be very interested to see his explanation and evidence backing this up. But to be frank: I have some strong reservation...

:whistle:

 

On 30/07/2015 at 11:20, kasle said:

K.A.G.s were always considered as early crosses. But according to that source they were delivered only since April 1917, i. e. late in the war....

That piece of information must be true, to my understanding: As K.A.G. crosses are award types, and awarded 1st  class crosses were supplied by the five well known Berlin monopolists only in the first years of the war, K.A. G. crosses must date to mid-1917 and later. Neither have I ever seen documented groups suggesting something else.

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sascha, thank you for revisiting this thread. i pulled out the above-mentioned book by K.N. and ran the pertinent pages through google's translate app--whilst the translation proved to be rudimentary at best i found no actual mention of a specific maker (especially one from present day slovakia), but he does mention the eisenbahn zentralamt, etc etc. most of the text addresses technical aspects regarding the various types from this maker. and he thinks these  crosses could be early issued crosses that were available well into the 1920s

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  • 1 month later...

Who wrote this book?  What is the name of this book? Who is K.N. ?  I have two ICs marked KAG and this maker's I.D. would be really ground breaking.  I am interested in hearing about or reading about what evidence K.N. uncovered about these crosses.  Thanks...  

Edited by Simius Rex
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Thanks a million to JapanX for answering my question.  It looks like this comes in 3 volumes.  Like I said before, it would be really groundbreaking if this author discovered the identity of the maker of the KAG crosses.  Now I need to brush up on Russian. :)

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  • 10 months later...
On 02/11/2019 at 16:34, JapanX said:

2.jpg

 

Hi Japan X 

I don't have any copies of Mr. Konstatin's books but I wouldn't be able to read Russian anyway.  If you are in possession of these books, could you PLEASE post a legible copy of Page 156 from Volume 1 for the benefit of Iron Cross enthusiasts in the forum.  I would love to see Mr. Konstantin's evidence about Franz Kuhmayer making these crosses.

Thanks very much for your help!

Cheers  

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2 hours ago, JapanX said:

In the last edition of his book (Vol. 2, p. 28) these crosses described as follows.

15.0. K.A.G. mark 1st class iron crosses made by an unidentified firm ... 

Hi Japan X

Thank you very much for getting this information.  It seems Mr. Konstantin identified KAG as the company Franz Kuhmayer on page 156 in his first volume, but changed his mind to the maker being UNIDENTIFIED on page 26 in his second volume.  I would say this is an important update to this thread. 

Thank you very much again for your help, Japan X.   

Edited by FAR 32
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1 hour ago, FAR 32 said:

 

Thank you very much for getting this information.  It seems Mr. Konstantin identified KAG as the company Franz Kuhmayer on page 156 in his first volume, but changed his mind to the maker being UNIDENTIFIED on page 26 in his second volume.     

Well, not exactly. 

We are talking about two different editions of his multi-volume work.

The early one was published in two volumes.

The later one was published in four volumes.

 

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18 hours ago, JapanX said:

Well, not exactly.  We are talking about two different editions of his multi-volume work.

The early one was published in two volumes.  The later one was published in four volumes.

Thank you for clearing that up, Japan X.  Could you please answer one more question which I am sure is on everybody's mind?

In his first edition on Page 156 Volume 1, does Mr. Konstantin's mention how he arrived at the conclusion that 'KAG' represented the company of Franz Kuhmayer?  This would be very interesting to know since he changed his mind about this theory when he wrote his second edition.

Thank you very much again, and this will be my last question. :)

Edited by FAR 32
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Well, I don`t currently have the first edition of his book, so I can`t look it up. 

But what I know is that first two volume set was published back in 2010 in Izhevsk.

85526203.thumb.jpg.b2787dfbb35fd441b0697d0a9c650575.jpg

And indeed at page 156 there was a part devoted to the K.A.G. crosses (described simply as "K.A.G. marking").

85526213.thumb.jpg.d380038cb14c7e5c7c31e86aa58c7aa5.jpg

Now if my memory serves me right the very first time he mentioned Franz Kühmayer as a possible owner of the K.A.G. mark was at the Feldgrau forum back in 2012 https://www.feldgrau-forum.com/threads/ek2-1914-hersteller-k-a-g-800.28885/

Back then he wrote: 

Falls mir gelingen wird, die volle Variante meines Buches «Das Eiserne Kreuz 1.Klasse der Version 1914» zu verlegen, so werde ich dort die bestätigenden Dokumente aufzeigen

He managed to publish the new four volume edition only in 2014. 

And as I wrote earlier there K.A.G. mentioned as an unknown manufacturer

Hope this clarifies the matter.

Edited by JapanX
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4 hours ago, JapanX said:

Hope this clarifies the matter.

Thank you again, Japan X, for this very useful information.  Alles klar, as they say. 

I am the guy in charge of buying and selling our German Iron Cross and 'Steckkreuz'  inventory but my business partners and I argued about the classification of our KAG crosses. I am going to re-label all of them to 'Maker Unknown' but apparently, Mr. Konstantin's theory about the KAG maker's mark has been circulating in practically all of the online forums. 

Thanks again for your help.     

Edited by FAR 32
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On 30/09/2020 at 20:30, OTTER76 said:

I believe K.A.G might be Klein AG, as in Klein Oberstein, a.k.a K.O.

hi, i know pretty much nothing about intrinsic details concerning ww2 iron cross makers--- was klein the parent company to a later merger with quenzer?

is there a documented history of the two businesses/families etc etc?

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