Graf Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi, I want to show you two nice 1914 EK1 and EK2 Prinzen Size -both marked 800 The EK1 came in an original box and is also marked with Maker mark for Rothe Vienna The size of EK1 is 34 x 34 mm and Weight is 11 g The Ek2 is 35 x 35 mm and Weight is 11.3 g It came with Austrian Type Ribbon I am not sure who is the maker of the of the EK2 -Rothe??? Regards Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasle Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Hi, I am sorry to say EK1 is a fake. Called Stepped core fake or Small crown fake. It is known in all EK versions from 1813 to TR. Stepped cores are seen on 1813 crosses, rarely also on 1870 ones. But on ww1 pieces it is total giveaway. Second red flag is to see same crown on 1813 pieces as on 1870 and 1914 ones. EK2 is nice original, but I can´t help you with the maker. Edited January 23, 2016 by kasle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi Kasle, Thank you for your opinion It is interesting finding I have one more so- called Prinzen Cross 1914 -2nd Class in a smaller size 27 mm It is not marked What is your opinion Graf One more picture Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasle Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hello, My opinion is that 27 mm Prinzen can be good one. Although it strongly resembles Stepped core fake, it is not from this "breed". There are a few but crucial distinctions between these. First of all, Stepped core fakes of all eras are always of 34 mm variety. Secondly, the core on genuine 27mm Prinzen is not stepped. Thirdly, reverses are completely different on originals and stepped core fakes. Because you can´t compare reverses, as you have one EK1 and one EK2, I am posting you obverses and reverses of Stepped core EK2s. As you can see, crown on Stepped core fake is completely different on reverse comparing to its obverse. On 27 mm period Prinzen the reverse crown is very similar to obverse crown. There is only one relation between this genuine and fake type. It is thought that original 27 mm Prinzen was used by fakers as model to create very convincing Stepped core fake. If you are interested in this theme, please read more in this thread: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346906&page=2&highlight=EK2+Prinzen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Hi Kasle, Thank you for the opinion All Prinzen Size Crosses, I have, bought from Military Dealers around the World Regarding the 1st Class Prinzen, I did buy it from Germany 4 years ago. After your comments , I contacted him and he rejected them. i do not want to disclose his name, due to privacy issues.. How sure are you that this Cross is not OK I respect your opinion, however I do not like to get in dispute with this German Dealer, because I have bought very nice items from him, which are 100 %, Original Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasle Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 If you put "Stepped core fake" or "Small crown fake" to search window at google, you will be loaded with tons of arguments, supporting my opinion. Stepped core fake is an excellent fake, must be said for the defence of your beloved dealer. It passed many COA expertises, and it also scored some appearance in "expert" books as original. Mostly before the invention of internet forums. Look: Here is reverse of original Prinzen EK1 cross made by Meybauer. It has (nearly) identical markings as your EK1, in similar position (it is.Meybauer´s mark, not Rothe´s as you said). Please compare the hardware - hinge and pin. It´s something totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Hi Kasle, It is getting interesting I agree with your comments There are few points I would like to explore The Mark on my Prinzen is Rothe not a Meybauer. Please, check in your files for the Rothe.s marks and compare. Or look closely the marks on the two EKs presented on this forum The marks of those makers look very similar and for a very long time Meybauer Crosses were considered as Rothe and Neffe ones ( Comments made also by Stephen Previtera in his book The Iron Time - page224, Also the hardware of the Prinzen EK1 in the book is different from the one you presented above by yourself) Although, many makers kept their Pin system very standard, there are many pieces made with different systems Looking at the Prinzen above, if there was not a maker's mark, one can take it for a Wagner made one. Regards Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I agree the mark originally presented has been attributed to Meybauer, not Rothe. To me, the biggest give away on the EK1 is the quality and definition of the core. Not consistent with original pieces I have seen/handled over the years. The whole point of these pieces is that they were private purchase, non-standard and expensive items. The quality on this should be exceptional, sharp and distinct. My opinion, for what it's worth. PS: The 27mm cross looks fine to me. Compare the crispness and definition of the core to your EK1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Hi Stogieman, Thank you for your opinion Regards Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Few more pictures of the two 800 EKs I hope they will bring more information to discuss Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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