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looking for an original Pour le Mérite award


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hi there!

as told previously I'm new in imperial collecting. reading a lot all around to learn as it seems to be a faked field as TR items are. looking around for a PLM award. I'm not interested in the more expensives ones, mainly because I can't afford them. but I read about 30's made replacement awards. they seem affordable to me but I'm aware of the large amount of copies.

where can I get info about these last?

what do you think about this one??

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/03/Preussen_Orden_Pour_le_M_eacute_rite__296303.html

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Dear Pep

In my honest opinion buying a replica is a waste of money. I'm not really a fan of Weitze, whether it's his prices, the selling of fakes as genuine pieces or the fact that he splits groups. Paying 1650 euro for a replica is a waste of money, you can get 10 EK1's or 6 BMVO4X's for that kind of money.

Kind regards, Laurentius

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yes. I agree concerning weitze.

I understand by you reply that weitze's one is a fake. not even a copy from the 30's for everyday use ...

does these private purchase awards from the 30's exist??

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Dear Pep

I know of cases going as far as 1957 of veterans buying PLM's. The last living recipient of a military PLM is ernst Jünger, who passed away in 1998. So it is most certainly possible that a piece made in the 30's was worn by a veteran of the first world war, this replica sold by weitze might even have been worn by a veteran, it certainly has some damage here and there that can account for that. All I'm saying is is that buying an expensive replica is a bad idea, and that it is better to wait untill you can buy a genuine piece. You never know what the future brings.

Kind regards, Laurentius

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My advice is to not settle.  Get a piece that u can look at for years and be proud of then something you will get rid of.  Also, buy books or check the forums on how to identify the award you are searching for.

Also, to clarify there is a difference between a replica and Wearer’s Copy and original issued piece (so good ones on emedals).

Finally my last advice is to start with some more common things or focus on an area like a specific province of awards.  Most common thing to get smart on were EK’s.

Coming from personal experience you will save a lot of heartache if you research your interests before just buying.

BTW, Weitze is known for splitting groups, fabricating things, and having high prices.

Best of luck.

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Dear ostprussenman_new

Would do you mean by fabricating things? Do you mean fabricating stories or fabricating pieces? I have heard from some people that he makes uniforms which he sells as originals, but I have never seen solid proof of that, opposed to the other things he is known for.

Kind regards, Laurentius

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16 hours ago, laurentius said:

Dear ostprussenman_new

Would do you mean by fabricating things? Do you mean fabricating stories or fabricating pieces? I have heard from some people that he makes uniforms which he sells as originals, but I have never seen solid proof of that, opposed to the other things he is known for.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Fabricating uniforms.  I personally know someone who used to do the work for him.  For example, taking a plain tunic, then adding badge loops, and throwing a fancy cufftitle on it to pull in more of a profit.  In the Third Reich area adding GD and Feldhernhalle cufftitle s and calling them original.  Nothing special tunic pulling in $1000 USD to adding loops and cufftitle increasing value to $3500 USD.  Get the point?  I will never buy anything from him.

11 hours ago, dond said:

There are original wearer's copies from the 20-40s that make perfecting fine collectibles.  Especially if you don't have $20-30 thousand to spend.

pa2b.jpg

pb2.jpg

pa2a.jpg

A few years ago I bought a 40’s made copy for $900 USD. He is way overpriced.

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Wagner/Friedlander pieces from the 20-40s go for $3000 or so depending on condition.  They are out there and the die characteristics are well known.  Godet/Schickle pieces are out there as well and slightly more expensive.  An early S&L can be found as well.  The later pieces (60s-today) lack quality imo.

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As with a lot of things it is a question of money. If you can spare the money buy an original period piece - there is nothing better and there will be no need to upgrade at a later date. But as these originals are very expensive (compared to most other medals) one may not have the money for it - in that case you can either not get a PLM (do you really need one?) or, if you must have one but do not have the cash for the real deal,  you can go for a wearer's copy as the best alternative. In any case be patient most things turn up in one or two years. There is no shortage of original PLMs if you have the cash for it.

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I real issue PlM would be a dream come true for most. 

I have used my funds to buy many nice awards and uniforms instead of an issue WW1 PlM. I settled for a couple post war 1920s-30s PlMs to display and I’m happy for now. Would I love to have a real issue one, heck yeah... but, I can’t yet bring myself to saving up for one...

 

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  • 9 months later...

The PLMs of the 20-30s are quite collectable pieces, if you do not have enough money to buy an original it is better to buy those, although you have to take care of yourself as copies abound, I bought a post-war PLM for veterans some time ago ( from the 20-30s) and I liked it a lot.

Edited by Stojan
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On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 05:23, pep said:

hi there!

as told previously I'm new in imperial collecting. reading a lot all around to learn as it seems to be a faked field as TR items are. looking around for a PLM award. I'm not interested in the more expensives ones, mainly because I can't afford them. but I read about 30's made replacement awards. they seem affordable to me but I'm aware of the large amount of copies.

where can I get info about these last?

what do you think about this one??

https://www.weitze.net/militaria/03/Preussen_Orden_Pour_le_M_eacute_rite__296303.html

Welcome to Imperial collecting!

The PLM is one of the most counterfeited Imperial Orders.  There exist counterfeit pieces of excellent quality.  My suggestion would be to look at every piece that you can and to look at genuine pieces in old collections and museums.  Gather knowledge (this may take many years) before you spend any money.

Good luck!

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Here are some hints for eager collectors, some things of which to be aware.

Here is how this piece was presented on the dealer's site.

PLM01aweb.jpg

Here is the actual piece, and what I learned.

Most of this damage, almost invisible to the naked eye, was reported on the COA. I used harsh light and some difficult camera angles to show everything.

Point is, this is what you want to see on something so old, and well worn. The fact is that if you had one of these exceptional things, you wore it... some of these gents probably never took them off. This one was worn from 1917 t0 1935 and had been kept well by the recipient, dinged up here and there, repaired as needed.

Watch for this sort of thing.

Be wary of minty examples.

crossobverse01cweb.jpg

plmschaden01aweb.jpg

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