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Alan Baird

PC 881 Edward Watkins City of London Police

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Posted (edited)

Found this photograph of King's Block (building on the left), then made the below images which I thought might be of interest? 

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King's Block c1880 map photo.jpg

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Edited by bigjarofwasps

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Hi,

I always think it is interesting, the old newspaper accounts about what happened in 1888 and I have not seen that Seatte Daily Times article before but it is very interesting.

The one point I would highlight is the fact that.........''PC 881 Edward Watkins did not blow his whistle on that famous night.

On day 1, Thursday the 4th of October in 1888, at the inquest on the death of Catherine Eddowes, Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins stated, ''I did not sound the alarm. We do not carry whistles.'' 

This is one very obvious area where the City of London Police trailed behind the Metropolitan Police in the introduction and issuing of Police whistles, as a means of summoning assistance.

On day 2, Friday the 5th of October in 1888, at the inquest on the death of Catherine Eddowes, the night watchman of Messrs. Kearlay & Tonge's Tea warehouse in Mitre Square, Mr George James Morris stated, ''I ran up Mitre Street into Aldgate blowing my whistle all the while.'' George James Morris was a retired Metropolitan Policeman and even he had a Police whistle and so when PC 881 Edward Watkins requested his help in obtaining assistance, he was able to complete that task successful. 

There is a well known newspaper sketch of PC 881 Edward Watkins raising the alarm by blowing his whistle and I think this is where most of the confusion began, in regard to how the alarm was raised on that very famous night. It was Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins who guarded the body and crime scene and who delegated George Morris to raise the alarm and to get further assistance.

 

 

 

The photograph of King's Block is excellent.

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Posted (edited)

Here's another article to pretty much the same effect.

It's interesting how the facts have become so convoluted.........

Recollections of Det. Insp. Robert Sagar, City of London Police.

As you know, the perpetrator of these outrages was never brought to justice, but I believe he came the nearest to being captured after the murder of the woman Kelly in Mitre-square. A police officer met a well-known man of Jewish appearance coming out of the court near the square, and a few moments after fell over the body. He blew his whistle, and other officers running up, they set off in pursuit of the man who had just left. The officers were wearing indiarubber boots, and the retreating footsteps of a man could be clearly heard. The sounds were followed to King's-block in the model dwellings in Stoney-lane, but we did not see the man again that night. 
Daily News, 9 Jan. 1905.

Sagar is not unique in his confused recollections. Pretty much every bobby who claimed to have been involved in some capacity in the case, who has put pen to paper, has gone on to document a catalogue of errors. It all makes for ripping reading but is frustrating to say the least, for us to try and confirm facts some 130 odd years later. 

 

I believe it was Frederick WENSLEY who claims to have come up with the idea of rubber on the soles of their boots? 

Edited by bigjarofwasps

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My apologies ………………………………….it has only just clicked...………………..the importance of King's Block and the events in Mitre Square in 1888. City Police Constable 882 Joseph Phipps and his family were residing at King's Block in 1891 and this is confirmed by the England Census of 1891. It is certainly possible the Phipps family were residing there earlier and maybe even in late 1888. It would be great if you could find some documentation which pointed in that direction ie baptism record etc. Maybe even in his City of London personal file, if one exists. Police Constable 882 Joseph Phipps could have been holding back the crowds in Mitre Square or he could have been at home with his family in King's Block and seen the events begin to unravel outside. 

Either way it could be a win, win, for your story.

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Hello,

This is another City of London Police Constable that served at approximately the same time as PC 881 Edward Watkins. It can be interesting to compare their police careers. Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven served in the City of London Police from 1879 to 1904 and he was considered to be a very good policeman and he had only two minor infringements in his personal records ie in 1880 and 1886 refer. 

John Stephen Raven was born in Lambeth, in London, in 1855.

In the England Census of 1861, John is 6 years old and his father William Raven [36] is listed as being employed as a carpenter and the family are residing with William Raven [84/carpenter] at 12 Devonshire Street, Trinity Newington and who is John Stephen Raven's grandfather.

In the England Census of 1871, John is 16 and listed as being employed as a carpenter, just like his father and grandfather and the family are residing in Wandsworth All Saints.

On the 9th of January in 1879, John Stephen Raven joins the City of London Police, collar number 811, warrant number 5266. I believe he may have been stationed at Cripplegate. [ See later census records - he is residing in this area.]

John Stephen Raven was described in 1879 as being :- [a] 5 feet and 11 inches tall. grey eyes. [c] Brown hair. [d] fair complexion. [e] Single.

On the 13th of March in 1879, 'Certificated fit for the Service,'  rate of pay 25 shillings per week.

On the 19th of June in 1879, John Stephen Raven marries Hannah Eliza Hench at Tooting Graveney, in Wandsworth.

On the 18th of March in 1880, 'Advanced to 2nd Class rate of pay of 28 shillings per week.'

On the 9th of September in 1880...………...Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was disciplined for, 'neglecting to report or take any steps respecting a fire,'  reprimanded and cautioned.

In the England Census of 1881, Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven and his wife Hannah are residing at the family home at 31 New Union Street, in St Giles Without Cripplegate.

On the 15th of November in 1883, 'Advanced to 1st Class rate of pay of 31 shillings and 6 pence per week.'

On the 7th of June in 1885, John Stephen Raven and Hannah Eliza Raven baptised their new-born daughter Grace Edith Raven and the records record the family home as being at 31 New Union Street, in Cripplegate.

On the 23rd of September in 1886...……… Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was disciplined for, 'not taking to Station a P.O. Savings Bank Book found by a boy and handed to him,' awarded the loss of one day's leave. [Maybe he personally returned the Savings Book to the owner/maybe he was hoping for a reward/who's knows?]

In 1887, Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was awarded the Queen Victoria City of London Police Jubilee medal for 1887, for being on duty during Queen Victoria's parade through London.

In 1888 during the, 'Jack the Ripper murders,' Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was serving with the City of London Police and may have been stationed at Cripplegate.

On the 16th of September in 1889, Police Constable 811 John Raven gave evidence at the Old Bailey trial of James Dysen on theft and simple larceny charges. It would appear that Police Constable 811 John Raven took the prisoner to Seething Lane Police Station and the prisoner was late found guilty and was sentenced to 12 month's hard labour.

On the 29th of September in 1890, 'Awarded a 15% pay increase to 36 shillings and 3 pence per week.' [I believe the Police pay had fallen so far behind that they had to greatly increase the basic pay and therefore they received a 15% increase.] 

In the England Census of 1891, we find that Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven and Hannah E Raven and their daughter are residing at 26 New Union Street, St Giles, Cripplegate.

In 1897, Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was awarded the Queen Victoria City of London Clasp for 1897, for being on duty during Queen Victoria's parade through London.

On the 15th of November in 1900, 'pay increase to 40 shillings per week.'

On the 12th of December in 1900, 'Advanced to Merit Class of Pay of 42 shilling and 6 pence per week.'

In 1902, Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven was awarded the City of London Coronation medal for 1902, for being on duty during the Coronation Parade. This medal is missing and out there somewhere.

On the 14th of January in 1904, Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven retired  on a pension of £66.10s.7d.and his conduct was officially recorded as being, 'Very Good.'

In the England Census of 1911, we find that John Stephen Raven is now recorded as being a, 'Police Pensioner and Gatekeeper.' The family home is located at 23 Barnsbury Park, in Islington.

On the 22nd of April in 1930, John Stephen Raven dies in London.

[Police Constable 811 John Stephen Raven appears to have been a very steady and reliable and professional Police Constable and this appears to be confirmed by the initial research which has been done. I originally 'e' mailed the 'Enquiry Team' with the 'London Metropolitan Archives' to confirm that there was a personal file available on him. I then paid a £20 fee to obtain the breakdown of what was in his personal file/costs for photocopying and therefore you only need to order what you think is important. L.M.A. excellent but could get expensive.]

 

 

 

 

 

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Cracking write up on PC RAVEN Alan!!

Interesting that he lived on New Union Street, PC PHIPPS lived there in 1871.

 

Wonder whether this was a block of Bobby addresses?

 

That being said could RAVEN have in fact been stationed at Bishops Gate? 

New Union Street.jpg

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Hi,

That's is one of my big weak spots......London topography......I don't connect between the locations.

It would be very nice if PC 881 Watkins, PC 882 Phipps and PC 811 Raven were all serving at Bishopsgate/Bishopsgate Street.

New Union Street appears to be in Cripplegate/Station More Lane area [I think]  but at the trial in 1889, PC Raven took the prisoner back to the police station and City Detective Henry Costin then interviewed the prisoner at Seething Lane Station/Tower Street. So maybe that is important. I suppose you could live and work in the City of London Police area and be stationed at almost any of their stations. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

The good thing is that we might find out more, about these 3 Constable's, at some latter stage.

 

 

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Hi,

This is just a bit of fun regarding a postcard and its indirect connection with the, 'Jack the Ripper story.'

This is an early postcard that was sent on the 13th of November in 1902. The sender was, ''S H Joseph, Bookseller,13 Newnham Street, Goodman's Field, London E'' and related to the forwarding of a sales catalogue. The postcard measured four and a half inches by three and a half inches. 

I am sure Ripperologists will recognise the address.

Albert Backert wrote more than a dozen newspaper articles, mainly between 1888-1889, regarding Jack the Ripper.

Albert Backert also took over from Mr George Lusk as the Chairman of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee in 1889.

By all accounts Albert Bachert appears to have enjoyed basking in the publicity relating to Jack the Ripper,

In the England Census of 1881 and the England Census of 1891, we find that Albert Bachert is residing in the family home at 13 Newnham Street, Goodman's Fields, in London E. Albert's parents are of German origin and his father is a successful tailor. Albert Bachert is recorded as being employed as an, 'art engraver or copper plate engraver.'  [various spellings of his surname]

In 1891, Albert Bachert was arrested in a butchers shop in Whitechapel for being drunk and disorderly and was found guilty and fined by the court. This conviction infuriated Albert Bachert especially as he appears to have had a high opinion of his own self-importance. There are numerous other stories regarding Albert Bachert but after the mid-1890's he disappears from the newspaper columns of the London Press. I would also suggest this is also probably the same period when he leaves 13 Newnham Street, Goodman's Field in London E.

Obviously, Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins and the other Police Constables previously mentioned, would read the daily newspapers and probably knew the local characters like Albert Bachert, They may not have known him personally but I would suspect they would have known his name and reputation.

I have included a sketch and photographs of the postcard etc. All just fun and speculation. 

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Hi,

Police Constable 353 James Saveall served in the City of London Police, in approximately, the same period as Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins. There is a previous entry regarding PC 353 James Saveall. The research recorded below, on this Police Constable's career, specifically examines his rewards/disciplinary records and to try and get an insight into City of London Police life in Victorian London. 

James Saveall was born in Rainham, in Essex, in 1852.

On the 5th of March in 1874, James Saveall joins the City of London Police. James was 21 years and 3 months old, had brown hair, hazel eyes, a fair complexion and was 5 feet 9 inches in height. James Saveall's previous occupation was recorded as being a, 'porter.'

Police Constable Saveall was issued with the collar number of 353 and the warrant number of 4798.

30/8/1875. Absent from his fixed point [SE end of St Martins-Le-Grand] ……….Admonished.

20/11/1876. Absent from Special Post, 15 minutes ……….to forfeit his next fortnightly leave.

20/10/1879. Old Bailey trial of Charles Williams for theft and pocketpicking and stealing 9 shillings and 9 pence. Police Constable 353 James Saveall arrested the prisoner. The prisoner was found guilty and sentenced to 7 years penal servitude.

10/12/1879. Sitting down in a shop whilst on duty ……….to forfeit his next fortnightly leave.

6/10/1881. Granted 14 days leave, on full pay, upon the Surgeon's recommendations.

23/12/1883. Sitting in a room and gossiping with a watchman ……….reduced to 2nd class of pay for 6 months. [No community policing or Christmas spirit there.]

21/2/1885. Granted 14 days leave, on full pay, upon the Surgeon's recommendation.

12/6/1886. Taking malt liquor whilst on duty ……….pardoned. [Lucky chappy.]

9/8/1886. Absent from part of his beat for 15 minutes ……….to forfeit one days fortnightly leave. [They must have been allowed, 'call on nature breaks?']

11/6/1887. Neglecting to discover a padlock unfast all night ……….reduced to 2nd class of pay for 6 months. [That is actually quite a heavy financial penalty over a six months period.]

In 1887, Police Constable James Saveall was awarded the Queen Victoria City of London Jubilee medal for being on duty during the Queen's Parade through London.

In 1888 whilst the Jack the Ripper murders were occurring James Saveall suffered a personal tragedy ie between October and December his wife died and he was left to raise their children alone. This would have been an extremely difficult time for Police Constable James Saveall.

15/8/1889. Awarded 10 shillings for conspicuous courage shown in arresting a man for furious driving. [Good one James.]

16/12/1890. Granted 21 days sick leave on full pay.

26/10/1891. Neglecting to take steps when informed that a youth had taken poison ……….admonished. [Obviously there is more to the story as he is only 'admonished.']

6/2/1894. Absent from his special post and inside a railway station for the purpose of drinking ……….reduced to 2nd class. [That was silly.]

In 1897, there is a newspaper report regarding a City of London Police sporting event and James Saveall participates in the 100m veterans handicap and is given a 16 yard start but unfortunately he does not win the race.

In 1897, Police Constable James Saveall was awarded the Queen Victoria City of London Clasp for being on duty during the Queen's Parade through London.

9/3/1899. Retired on pension from the City of London Police and his conduct was recorded as being, 'Good.' Police Constable James Saveall was issued with the collar numbers of 353, and then 221 and finally his collar number was 380.

On the 1st of December in 1938, James Saveall aged 86, dies on the Isle of Ely.

 

 

 

 

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Hi,

I always thought that both the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police would have done many things in a similar fashion/manner.

For example, when Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins joined the City of London Police, he started as a Police Constable Class 3...…..and obviously by gaining experience and over time he became a Police Constable Class 2 and finally a Police Constable Class 1. This is the same rank/pay structure that was also used by the Metropolitan Police. After each increase in the individuals Class within the rank of Police Constable, this would result in an increase in the weekly pay of that Police Constable.

Police Constable 108 William Theodore Males joined the City of London Police on the 22nd of June in 1894 and was ''forced to resign'' on the 30th of November in 1903. 

Therefore Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins and Police Constable 108 William Theodore Males careers overlapped for approximately 2 years, from 1894 to 1896.

It is interesting to note that when Police Constable 108 William Theodore Males joined the City of London Police in 1894, there were now 7 levels of pay within the rank of Police Constable. The initial joining level and then advancing to level 6 and then eventually up to level 1. It took Police Constable 108 William Theodore Males approximately 6 years to reach the level 1 pay scale.

I have included two photographs which highlight the above. 

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Here are some general details about Police Constable William Theodore Males directly from his City of London records.

William Theodore Males was born in Hitchin, in Hertfordshire, in 1874.

William also served in the 1st Hertfordshire Volunteer from August of 1888 to March in 1893.

There is a previous entry on this thread that also gives his family details etc.

Later I will include his commendations/punishments records because it might be interesting to examine them against the commendations/punishments records of Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins.

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It will be easier to deal with his ''Rewards & Commendation'' first and then later list his punishments.

These actions give an insight into the man himself...…...

24/6/1896. Awarded ten shillings for courageous conduct in stopping a runaway horse. [always a very dangerous situation - well done William Theodore Males]

23/7/1900. Commended for intelligence shown in bringing to justice a man who had committed a robbery on G.N.Ry. [Great Northern Railway]

 

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William Theodore Males.

Discipline and Punishment Records...………………..

5/1/1899. 2 minutes late for the 7.45am muster and using improper language to his sergeant. [Forfeit 3 days leave.]

22/2/1899. Late 19 minutes at the 5.40am muster. [Promotion retarded during the Commissioner's pleasure.]

I sure they would only have had a pocket watch available, to ensure they woke up on time, to prepare and then get to their work. Maybe neighbours also knocked on each others doors to ensure individuals were awake. No radio alarm clocks in those days so it is understandable that mistakes are going to be made but discipline is discipline. These are more minor offences.

22/2/1902. Being inside the Girlder's  Arms Public House for the purposes of drinking whilst on duty. [Fined 5 shillings.]

Rather silly and Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins also suffered a similar fate on several occasions.

5/7/1903. Quarrelling and fighting with Police Constable 115 Gough whilst on duty and in plain clothes. [Not to be employed on plain clothes duty.]

This appears to be the start of more serious offences.

It would be interesting to know if Police Constable 115 Gough had the same punishment placed in his record. This offence seems to be a much more serious. It would obviously effect his chances of promotion and I believe there were additional allowances for those Policemen serving on plain clothes duties.

28/11/1903.Drunk and disorderly in the Magpie Public House, 12 New Street whilst in plain clothes and off duty. [Required to Resign.]

There is much more to this story but I will add it in separately.

I have attached both the discipline record sheets of both William T Males and Edward Watkins.  

 

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The Incident...…………………

At approximately 4 to 5pm on the 28th of November in 1903, William Theodore Males enters the Magpie Public House which is located at 12 New Street, Bishopsgate Street.  William has a strong build and is over five feet and ten inches in height. He is known to the manager of the Public House because he lives nearby.

William is very drunk and therefore they refused to sell him any more drink. William becomes very abusive and uses obscene language and then refused to leave the premises.

At approximately 5.40pm District Inspector Chapman is informed of the situation and attends the Magpie Public House. District Inspector Chapman with the assistance of the Public House manager, manages to remove William from the premises. The Inspector then accompanies William home and tells him to, ''go upstairs to his wife/home.'' 

Being of unsound drunk mind, William then abuses his wife when she opens the front door and then returns to the Magpie Public House.

This time District Inspector Chapman brings along a Police Sergeant with him to the Magpie Public House and with great difficulty and much violence and swearing they take William Theodore Males back to the Police Station. A doctor is called to confirm that William is indeed suffering from intoxication.

William Theodore Males fate is sealed and he is later formally ''required to resign.''

But there is a happy ending to the story because in the England Census of 1911, William Theodore Males is employed as a, ''Persian carpet salesman'' and he is still living with his wife and family. 

The funny thing is that they are still residing at the family home at 3/4 New Street, near the Magpie Public House and so the question would be ''does he still frequent the Magpie Public House.''

Alan.

 

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Hi,

Police Constable 491 George Walter Fulcher served in the City of London Police basically during the same period as Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins.

Police Constable 491 George Fulcher's City of London Police personal file has not survived and his Queen Victoria City of London Jubilee medal for 1887 has been damaged. The ribbon suspension bar has been removed and somebody has tested the metal.... by filing the metal between his initial and surname on the rim of the medal. Apart from the above damage, the medal has a very nice patina and the engraved details can still be easily read.

George Walter Fulcher was born in Bermondsey, in London, in 1848.

What we can confirm is that in the England Census of 1871, George Walter Fulcher was employed as a City of London Police Constable and was boarding at 1& 2 St. Thomas the Apostle Police Station in the district of the City of London. Therefore it is reasonable to suspect he would have probably joined the City of London Police in approximately the 1869 period. 

In the Old Bailey trial records for the 13th of July in 1871, it records the trial of James Wood [18] who was charged with ''pocket picking.'' James Wood stole a purse containing a quantity of money from a Sarah Webster at the Moorgate Street Station. The prisoner bumped into Mrs Webster, cut her jacket pocket and stole the purse. PC 491 George Fulcher took the prisoner to the Moor Lane Station where he was charged with the offence. The prisoner was found guilty and sentenced to 7 years penal servitude. [There was no messing about with that sentence].

In the Old Bailey trial records for the 26th of June in 1882, it records the trial of John McMahon [20] and Thomas Mead [21] for robbery with violence on Charles Jack and the stealing of a diamond ring and scarf pin from the victim.  The incident occurred at Blackfriars Bridge and PC 491 Fulcher arrested and took the prisoners into custody. A 12 months hard labour sentence was given to John McMahon and Thomas Mead was found not guilty.

In 1887, awarded the Queen Victoria City of London Jubilee medal.

In the Old Bailey trial records for the 24th of October in 1887, it records the trial of Margaret Jones [54] for coining offences. Margaret Jones attempted to purchase a quantity of meat at a butchers shop in Water Lane, in the City of London, with a bad half-crown. PC 491 Fulcher took the prisoner into custody and she was found guilty and sentenced to 18 months hard labour. [obviously they took the coinage offences very seriously].

In 1888, you have the Jack the Ripper murders………………..

Although we do not know exactly when PC 491 George Walter Fulcher retired on pension from the City of London Police, we can reasonably assume, it was around the 1894 period.

In the England Census of 1901, we find that George W Fulcher [52] and his family are residing at 31 Ely Place, Hatton Gardens and Liberty of Saffron Hill, in London. George Fulcher is recorded as being a retired City of London Police Constable and is now employed as a house-keeper in charge of officers. 

In the England Census of 1911, we find that George W Fulcher [62] and his family are residing at 14 Brookfield Avenue, in Walthamstow, in Essex.

In 1919, George Walter Fulcher died.

 

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Hi,

''Police families often just get bigger.''

On the 4th of April in 1908, George W Fulcher's son ''Walter Ansell Fulcher'' marries Beatrice Mole and he is recorded as being a Metropolitan Police Constable .I have photographed his pension records.

On the 12th of September in 1908, George W Fulcher's daughter ''Beatrice Mary Annie Fulcher [26] marries William Henry Washington Page [27] who is also recorded as being employed as a Police Constable. I have attached their wedding photograph.

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Hi,

I found another sketch of Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins in the book, ''Jack the Ripper,'' by Stewart P Evans and Donald Rumberlow.

Between this sketch and the other two original sketches listed previously on this thread, it gives you a nice overall balanced picture of what he would have looked like when you compare and combine them together.

I have also attached the modern date artist's impression of what he would have looked like and it should be remembered this was done by looking at the original sketches and by comparing other individuals with similar facial features to produce the end result.  

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Hi,

This refers to a Metropolitan Police Sergeant that hunted Jack the Ripper, just as Police Constable 881 Edward Watkins had done with the City of London Police.

The medals are not fully researched as I am on a break from my hobby and I will complete the research sometime during the earlier months of 2020. At the moment I am basically just looking for ways to better present my collection and to prioritise what research needs to be done in the future.

This is just a short summary of ''John Carter's,' Metropolitan Police career because I think he has the potential to become a very interesting individual. 

John Carter joined the Metropolitan Police on the 19th of August in 1878 and was assigned to Lambeth or 'L' division and was given the warrant number of 63040.

In 1887, PC John Carter was on duty for Queen Victoria's Jubilee Parade through London and was therefore awarded the Queen Victoria Metropolitan Police Jubilee medal for 1887 whilst attached to Lambeth or 'L' division. This medal and with the later 1897 clasp is missing.

PC John Carter was promoted to Sergeant and transferred to Whitechapel or 'H' division on the 2nd of February in 1888. Police Sergeant John Carter served in Whitechapel throughout the, ''reign of terror by the infamous Jack the Ripper.''

In the England Census of 1891, Police Sergeant John Carter is recorded as being attached to the Commercial Street Police Station, in Shoreditch, Whitechapel or 'H' division. Inspector Edmund Reid and Inspector Walter Frost are also listed and then it is Sergeant John Carter who comes next on the census form. Therefore we can confirm he knew and worked with the famous Inspector Edmund Reid etc. Police Sergeant John Carter remained in Whitechapel or 'H' division until the 13th of December in 1892. 

On the 14th of December in 1892, John Carter was promoted to Station Sergeant and transferred to Bow or 'K' division.

On the 8th of February in 1897, John Carter was promoted to Inspector and transferred to Paddington or 'F' division and it is with this division he would have been awarded his 1897 Jubilee clasp.

In 1902, Inspector John Carter was on duty for the Coronation Parade through London and was therefore awarded the Metropolitan Police Coronation medal for 1902 whilst serving with Paddington or 'F' division.

On the 8th of August in 1903, Inspector John Carter retired on pension from the Metropolitan Police and Paddington or 'F' division.

John Carter was recalled for Police duty, as an Inspector with Paddington or 'F' division, for the Coronation Parade through London in 1911 and was issued with the temporary warrant number of 03455.

[John Carter born in Heathfield in Sussex, in 1859.] 

Hopefully there will be more to record....at a later date, regarding Inspector John Carter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Some more info...……………….

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Hi,

Here we have the ''before and after'' photographs, on how I though, I could better present/display Inspector John Carter's Metropolitan Police Coronation medals for 1902 and 1911.

I used an original unnamed Queen Victoria Metropolitan Police Jubilee medal for 1887 and with the 1897 clasp, as a ''filler medal'' for this particular group. These medals were originally issued to Sergeants and above unnamed and the individual was required to pay for the engraving of the medal, should he wish to do so. Later medals were engraved to all ranks ie Metropolitan Police Coronation medal 1911 etc. I would suspect Police Sergeant John Carter's medal will be out there somewhere engraved and detailing he was serving in Lambeth or 'L' division during Queen Victoria's Jubilee.  

The ''filler medal'' allows the other medals to be viewed in their full glory and attached to a medal ribbon bar/broach.

Obviously since original unnamed Metropolitan Police Jubilee medals for 1887 are difficult to find, you would only do this for a group of medals you think are important to you..... for whatever reasons that may be. During the Jack the Ripper murders John Carter was a Police Sergeant with Whitechapel or 'H' division and therefore this is why I did the upgrade. 

It is interesting to note that none of John Carter's medals are engraved 'H' division because they were issued during periods when he was serving with other divisions but I do think this emphasizes the point...….. that it is the stories that are important and not just what is engraved on the medal. Another important aspect of John Carter's Metropolitan Police history is that we can evidence his service with Whitechapel or 'H' division quite clearly through his Metropolitan Police pension records and through the England Census of 1891 etc. There may be additional information I can find later when the research continues.

Hope you like the presentation of ''before and after.''

Alan.

  

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On 11/11/2018 at 17:25, Alan Baird said:

Somebody recently said, 'it is hard to imagine there are still important medals out there, after all this time.'

They were referring, in general, to the Policemen that served in London during the 1888 period [JTR] and this was an informed observation. I would class myself as an expert, in Police medals from this period, so lets have some fun.

I will give you a short story regarding a medal I purchased approximately a year ago which I consider to be an extremely important one.

The medal was being sold as part of a small group of 4 Police medals which were all approximately from the same period. The seller was one of the most respected and professional London Auction Houses and has a worldwide reputation and following. [Auction Houses have archives, December 2017 sale refers] The lot/medal could have been viewed at both the preview and completed catalogue stages, on the Auction House site. It would also have been available to view on sites like 'the salesroom.' The lot/medal was on open view to the world for approximately one month and not just to hundreds of collectors and dealers but probably to many thousands of collectors and dealers. 

To cut a long story short, I purchased the lot/medal without any real opposition, sold off the other medals and kept the important one. This was the Metropolitan Police Coronation medal for 1902 and awarded to, 'Insp. J Helson M divn.'

' Insp. J Helson  is :-

[a] On the 24th of October in 1887, Detective Sergeant Joseph Henry Helson was promoted to Inspector and transferred to Bethnal Green or 'J' division. Detective Inspector Joseph Helson was in charge of the Bethnal Green  C.I.D.

At 06.45am on the 31st of August in 1888 Detective Inspector Joseph Helson was notified of Mary Ann 'Polly' Nichols murder, examined her body at the old mortuary, in Old Montague Street and then examined the murder site. Detective Inspector Joseph Helson subsequently took charge of the murder investigation. He attended the inquests and liaised closely with Detective Inspector Abberline especially on the murder of Annie Chapman.

[c] Detective Inspector Joseph Helson also had a good team of detectives in Bethnal Green and Detective Sergeant George Godley particularly stood out. This is a relevant point later in this story. There is so much information of Detective Inspector Joseph Helson that it would take too long to list it all so lets cut to the chase.

[d] On the 14th of January in 1895, Detective Inspector Joseph Helson retires on pension from Bethnal Green division and the Metropolitan Police. Joseph Helson was 49 years old and had completed 26 years and 10 days in the Metropolitan Police. Joseph Henry Helson and family return to his place of birth and retired in Devon.

 

Joseph Helson was recalled to duty with the Metropolitan Police on the 20th of June in 1902 for the Coronation Parade through London. Inspector Joseph Helson was assigned to Southwark or 'M' division and given the temporary warrant number of 1869.

Now somebody will say why did he not serve with Bethnal Green or 'J' division instead of Southwark or 'M' division in 1902. Well there are three reason for this deployment.

[a] Firstly, there was an Inspector's vacancy at Southwark or 'M' division.

Secondly, Joseph Helson's son Albert Henry Helson was a young detective serving in Southwark or 'M' division at the time.

[c] And last but not least, his old colleague and friend Detective Sergeant George Godley, was now Detective Inspector George Godley in charge of the Southwark C.I.D.

 

The moral of the story is that like Edward Watkins and Joseph Henry Helson, there is always the possibility of new finds out there.

[The medal was out there and in plain view for the world to see.]   

 

regards,

Alan.

 

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As a neutral disinterested third party, I’d like to see the medal and tobacco jar in the same display case. 😇

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