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Doubt about the meaning of the word "leib"

Can we say that the "Leibregiments" are the regiments of the guard of the different German states?

Why a regiment was distinguished by the nickname of "leib"

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 03fahnen said:

Can we say that the "Leibregiments" are the regiments of the guard of the different German states?

No. Leibregiment is not the same as Leibgarde. Leibregimenter got the name, because the sovereign of a state was the regiment´s chief. With that came the right to collect the money that was generated through the regiment (goes back to 17th/18th century).

It is not a nickname, either, It´s a title of honour.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC

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The first Kompanie of a regiment is also called "Leibkompanie" and normally owned by the Regminetschef (Chief or Owner of the regiment). I once heard from a Oberstleutnant-Kompanie and Major-Kompanie too. Maybe someone has more knowledge about that and can elaborate in more detail.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GreyC said:

No. Leibregiment is not the same as Leibgarde. Leibregimenter got the name, because the sovereign of a state was the regiment´s chief. 

 

If this is the case, please explain to me why in 1914 Inf. R. 117 was named "Infanterie Leibregiment Großherzogin?"  She was certainly not the sovereign of Hessen, and why was Inf. R. 115 named "Leibgarde Infanterie Regiment" with the Großherzog of Hessen as its "Chef?"

Andy

Edited by arb

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Posted (edited)

I think back in the Holy Roman Empire the connection with the sovereign as regimental chief for Leibregimenter was correct (Maybe with some exceptions, I am sure there were some... like always...) If I remember correctly the Großherzogin regiment was renamed to that name later...

I think with the time passing the Leib- name became more or less an honor title...

But I am sure there are members with a much deeper knowledge than me

Edited by Utgardloki

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16 hours ago, arb said:

please explain to me why in 1914 Inf. R. 117 was named "Infanterie Leibregiment Großherzogin?"

The IR 115 has a long history of being called Leibregiment. It has this name since 1806 when the Großherzogin in question wasn´t even born yet. The title Großerzogin was an additional honor-titel first to honor the then wife of the Großherzog (1897). After their divorce 1901 the regiment retained the title Großherzogin, but from 1902 (not 1914 to my knowledge)  this meant the Großherzog´s mother. So the regiment retained not only the younger title Großherzogin, but the more senior title Leibregiment, as well since 1806.

And why should a Garde-Regiment not be a Leibregiment also? The same is true with the Prussian 1. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß, as far as I know.

GreyC

 

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Hello, The two  Leib husaren regimente of the Prussian Army , the Death head hussars ,were not part of the Garde. The Leib Garde Husaren Regiment was created in 1815 as Garde Husaren ,later in 1888 when William II acceded to the throne named himself Regimentschef and the unit was named Leib Garde Husaren

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No response yet from arb. For all of you still interested and able to read Fraktur German here the exolanation of the Brockhaus, Germany´s equivalent to the Encyclopedia Britannica (from a 1890s edition).  There is an entry to Leibregiment that has this lemma/ cross reference to Leibtruppen.

GreyC

Leibregimenter.thumb.jpg.2f93d271750e187bb7174b170c8c9b51.jpg

 

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A quick translation draft:

Leibtruppen. (literally "Body-Troups") The oweners of the regiments in 16th and 17th century were chef of a company of theire regiment too und got theire incummings from that, there duty was provided by a Kapitänleutnant (also called Stabskapitän). Such companys were named Leibkompanien. The first company of regiments, whose owner was the lands Fürst(prince) or a prince of his house, had this name too. In that sence the first company of the prussian 1st guard regiment by foot is also today called Leibkomanie, the 1st squadron of the prussian Garde du Corps Leibeskadron, the 1st driving battery of the guard field artillery regiment Leibbatterie, but the officer who commands them is the real company or squadron chief. In the german army further the 1st company of the infantry regmients number 115 to 117 are Leibkompanien and the 1st squadrons of the dragoon regmients number 23 and 24 Leibeskadrons. The third battalions of the infantry regiments number 92 and 118 are called Leibbattaillone. Leib-regiments are the prussian grenadier regiment number 8, the saxon grenadier regiment nr. 100, the Baden grenadier regiment nr. 109, the hessian infantry regiment nr. 115, the bavarian infantry leib regiment, the Leib-Gardehusarenregiment (guard hussars), the Leib-Gardeartellerieregiment (artillery regiment), the prussian hussar regiments nr. 1 and 2, the Baden dragoon regiment nr. 20, the hessian dragoon regiment nr. 24. In Russia single troup parts are called L., in Austria-Hungary now only the Leibgarden (s.Haustruppen (house troops))

 

It seems like the transition to guards is somehow fluent? ...

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Hi Utgardloki,

thanks for the translation. To answer your question: yes and no 😉

Of course, if a sovereign was Chef of a regiment he had strong ties to it. So sometimes the regiments/units became Leibgarde also. But Leibregimenter were only few, whereas for example, the Prussian Garde grew to become it´s own (Garde)Korps with around at least 30.000 troops.

GreyC

 

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As I explained before a Garde Regiment ,the Garde Hussars ,become Leib Garde Regiment when it was associated with the monarch

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Thanks for your answers.
Many years of collector (more than 40) and such basic things without knowing.

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Dont worry, nobody knows all ,knowledge is ever incomplete

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I just read a PM which chided me for not responding to a post.  Here then is my response:

Your initial response did not answer the question I posed, which was, why did a Leibregiment not have a sovereign as its "Chef" as you claimed.  Kindly grant me the consideration that I know why IR 117 and others were named the way there were.
 
Nevertheless, thank you for personally invalidating your earlier statement that Leibregimenter were so named because a sovereign was their "Chef"  A Großherzogin, be it a wife or mother, was no sovereign.  

In order to avoid such issues in the future,  perhaps use qualifying statements such as "generally speaking" or "in most instances."  Sweeping generalizations do nothing to further an accurate understanding of history.

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I took time and effort to answer your question and scanned the article of the 1890s Brockhaus for all to read (thanks much to Utgardloki for the translation) to facilitate a valid answer. So if you are not happy with my answer you have the Brockhaus article I provided to give you the answer. That´s all from my side.

GreyC

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8 hours ago, arb said:

I just read a PM which chided me for not responding to a post.  Here then is my response:

Your initial response did not answer the qu were.
 
Nevertheless, thank you for personally invalidating your earlier statement that Leibregimenter were so named because a sovereign was their "Chef"  A Großherzogin, be it a wife or mother, was no sovereign.  

In order to avoid such issues in the future,  perhaps use qualifying statements such as "generally speaking" or "in most instances."  Sweeping generalizations do nothing to further an accurate understanding of history.

arb und Grey C , In the German Empire ,a Federal Empire , existed four Kingdoms,Prussia Bavaria Saxony and Wurtemberg . each with the respective King. But existed also the Great Duchies , Baden Hesse Darmstadt, Mecklenburg Schwerin and Mecklenburg Strelitz , Saxe Weimar and Oldenburg. each with their Great Duke ,Gross herzog , that counts as a Sovereign. existed five Duchies and seven Principalties ,each with a Duke or a Prince , and finally there were three Free Cities , Hamburg Lubeck and Bremen that were Republics with a President of the Senat ,at the head.  contrary to whar arb thinks in the German Empire the Grossherzogin of Hesse counted as a Sovereign .

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