Weird Bavaria: The St. George Jubilee Medal, 1889

[filfoster 1]

I just acquired a 'museum specimen' of the  St George Jubilee medal of 1889. This medal appears on the medal bars for various Bavarian high-and-mighties like Rupprecht, Alfons, etc. . My sources say it had precedence over the Military Max Joseph order on the medal bar and the photos available online seem to confirm this. I have two questions:

1. Why was this medal so highly regarded? It's a Jubilee medal, and rather ordinary looking, too.

2. Where in God's name will I get more ribbon to mount it?  My online searches have been fruitless and there's no 'look-alike' ribbon among world medals that I've yet found. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by filfoster
grammer

[Daniel Krause 15]

Question 2 can be answered 🙂

best

Daniel

[filfoster 1]

Please tell me how I can obtain a meter of this?

[filfoster 1]

Does anyone know why this medal had such high precedence?

[saschaw 9]

I'm not sure if there is an "official" answer to the first question, I haven't found something by now other than the pure fact it had highest precedence on Bavarian bars. It might possibly refer to the paramount position the House Equestrian Order of Saint George held - keep in mind, this came in several classes and even the lowest, knight, was worn as a neck badge, accompanied by a breast star! This isn't our standard merit order, but a society connecting Bavaria's old, high nobility...

However, many photos even of Bavarian princes (and rulers?) proof this rule of precedence was often ignored, not only if the medal was combined with the very high esteemed Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden's knight's cross. It might have seemed ridiculous even to some of them!

Edited August 18, 2019 by saschaw

[Utgardloki 1]

I am no expert in Bavarian orders, but if the medal was considered part of the St. Georgs-Order, and no other higher insignia was worn on the bar it makes sense that it is on the first place, although a Max Joseph knight is much more prestigious.

I don't know how the precedence in Bavarian orders exactly worked, but in Austria for example a Franz Joseph Order Commander- cross ranged above the Iron Crown iii class although the Order of the Iron Crown ranged above the Franz Joseph Order. So they could have also just ranged the for example Max Joseph knight above this jubilee medal, but these are just my thoughts

Edited August 18, 2019 by Utgardloki

[spolei 0]

The awarded medals were made of gold, not silver guilt. It is a very rare medal and the most offers are copys.

[filfoster 1]

I felt lucky to get this one as I've never seen another replica one and certainly couldn't afford a real one, particularly just to hang on a display uniform.

Here is an excerpt from another forum providing the Bavarian precedence:

) St. George Order's 1889 Jubilee Medal
2) Military Max Joseph Order
3) Military Medical Decorations  
4) Military Merit Order with Swords
5) Military Merit Medal (later changed to Bravery Medals)
6) Military Merit Cross with Swords
7) Military Merit Order for peacetime 
😎 Merit Order of the Bavarian Crown
9) Merit Order of Saint Michael
10) Maximilian Order for Science and Art
11) Ludwig Order
11a) Military Merit Cross for peacetime (not mentioned)
12) Merit Cross for the Years 1870/71
13) Lifesaving Medal
14) Ludwig Medal
15) Merit Cross for Voluntary Care of the Sick
16) Prussian Iron Cross 2nd Class
16a) Ludwig Cross of 1916 (statutory precedence not found)
17) Bavarian Jubilee Medals
18) Orders of other German states
19) 1870/71 War Medal
20) 1866 War Cross
21) 1849 Campaign Medal (Pfalz rebellion suppression)
22) 1849 War Cross (Imperial contingent against Denmark)
23) Colonial Medal, Southwest Africa Medal, China Medal
24) Long Service Awards
25) Voluntary Care of the Sick Long Service Awards
26) Medals of other German states
27) Non German Orders, Decorations, and Medals

 

If anyone sees another copy offered, please let me know. I'd like a 'spare'.

[filfoster 1]

Vernon's Collector's Guide lists this medal under the category of "Military and House Order of St. George" and shows it being awarded in both gold and silver.

Edited August 18, 2019 by filfoster

[spolei 0]

You are right. 75 medals were made of gold, 11 medals were produced in silver guilt.
The medal was awarded by Prinzregent luitpold on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of his membership in the Order of Saint George on 15th dec 1889. Only the members, who take part at this jubilee, were be awarded.

[filfoster 1]

If anyone has a copy they'd part with, or finds a copy for sale, please let me know. I'd like to have another one for a medal bar project. Thanks!

[waldo 0]

Very interesting topic. I once wrote a post about the Georgs medal in the SDA, but in German. Here is the link:

http://h2385226.stratoserver.net/wbb4/index.php?thread/61927-bayern-st-georgs-medaille-des-haus-ritterordens-vom-heiligen-georg/

There are many fakes of this medal.

To distinguish between an original and a forgery you 
should compare exactly with the pictures in my article. 
There are only originals shown.

Only the golden medals were awarded, the silver medals could be purchased and worn for donning the field uniform. Of these, however, only 11 pieces have been embossed.

A gold medal was made from 15 ducats of gold and was therefore very heavy. They were minted in the Royal Bavarian Mint in Munich. The band rings were made by Eduard Quellhorst in Munich and most were marked with the manufacturer's stamp EQ.

The Bavarian wearing regulations stipulate that the Georg Medal should always be given first place by civilians or military personnel.

Here is a Google translation of the statutes

Law and Ordinance for the Kingdom of Bavaria, No. 50, December 24, 1889, pages 665 - 666:

Supreme ordinance, the foundation of a medal commemorating the celebrated on 8 December 1889 main festival of the house = Equestrian Order of St. George concerning.

In the name of His Majesty King Luitpold, by the grace of God royal Prince of Bavaria, Regent

We have decided, in commemoration of the main feast of the house of St. George, on the 8th of December, 1889, on which day fifty years have passed, since We entered the Order by Our Father, King Louis I, who is resting in God was taken to donate a medal and to prescribe over it what follows:

§. 1.

This decoration, which is "St. George's Medal "can only be members of the House = Order of St. George. We give it first to all the members of the order who were present at the religious festival on December 8, 1889.

§. 2.

The indefinite in a golden medal, their front of our bust image surrounded in the large master of the bayer of the luitpold, who portrayed St. George on horseback in battle with the lynx. The inscription on the reverse side reads: To commemorate the 8th of December, 1889

§. 3.

The St. George's medal is worn on a sky blue silk ribbon with white and other border on the left breast.

§. 4.

The decrees of the St. George Medal shall be issued by us personally executed decrees.

§. 5.

The St. George's Medal remains after the demise of the holder the survivors circumstances.

 

Given to Munich, 15 December 1889.

 

Luitpold

Prince of Bavaria

of the Kingdom of Bavaria Verweser

Quietude. Crailsheim.

At the Most High Command: The General = Secretary: Frhr. v. Volderndorff

Edited August 22, 2019 by waldo

[filfoster 1]

Thank you, Waldo!  That answers definitively the question of precedence. Perfect! 

I would only be interested in purchasing a copy because I am not a medal collector.  I replicate uniforms and make medal and ribbon bars to complete the uniform displays. I hope to find another copy of this medal sometime. I would certainly welcome any help from members of this forum to find one. Thank you. 

All my questions have been answered. This forum is a terrific resource. 

[waldo 0]

Hello,

I am glad that your questions have been answered. So far I have 
only seen copies that were offered as originals and are therefore 
very expensive. Should I find a cheap copy, I will write to you.

greetings from Bavaria

Walter

Edited August 22, 2019 by waldo

[filfoster 1]

Walter: Thank you very much. I would be very grateful. 

[saschaw 9]

On 19/08/2019 at 01:04, filfoster said:

Vernon's Collector's Guide lists this medal under the category of "Military and House Order of St. George" and shows it being awarded in both gold and silver.

I think it is important to point out Vernon's Collector Guide is wrong if they claim this medal was "awarded in both gold and silver". It had one grad only, GOLD, and did never come in silver. The eleven mentioned pieces by spolei were silver gilt, and they were never awarded, but officially struck replacement medals for the wearers that had previously received medals in gold. Just to have this accurate here, if books aren't.

[waldo 0]

Hello Sascha,

there you are right of course, I have already pointed out above. 🙂

Schön, dass Du wieder öfters “online” bist.

Viele Grüße

Walter

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by waldo

[Alex K 3]

Just for interest, attached images of two medal bars attributed to Prince Alfons of Bavaria, each shows the St Georges medal, given the very low numbers of the gold version made, are these likely to be "Gold" or "silver gilt" wearers copies, taking into account who he was?

 

regards

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Alex K

[waldo 0]

Servus Alex,

I think that the upper Georg medal is a reproduction in gold. 
I do not know the lower one at all. 

2017 was also at Hermann Historica a medalbar by Alfons with a 
Georg medal on offer. Here's a receipt where Alfons ordered 2 
Georg medals in gold. The medal, which was included in the lot, 
I like the execution also not. This should be a replica medal. 
However, in a rebuilt or recreated medal neither the diecutter 
Scharff nor the A B for Alois Börsch should be seen on it, since 
it is not a re-stamping with the original stamping dies nor a 
casting of an original medal. 

I think that there is a lot of mischief going on.

First the pictures of Hermann Historica:

For comparison an original Georgian medal from my 
collection. Consider the elaboration in detail.

Here is the link to the original Georgsmedaille of the 
Museum "Staatliche Münzsammlung in Munich".

https://www.kenom.de/objekt/record_DE-MUS-099114_kenom_181272/2/
 

Edited August 28, 2019 by waldo

[waldo 0]

In the following picture one can see, how high and 
plastically the stamp of Professor Scharff was 
worked out. This means a lot of effort, especially 
when embossing the medals. 

I think that this medal is one of the highlights of 
the stamp cutting and embossing art of the 19th and 
20th centuries.

Note also that Luitpold wears the Deputy "Ornat" of the 
GeorgsO, unlike the Rescue Medal.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by waldo

[Alex K 3]

Hi, thanks for the interesting details, I agree that when you look at the originals examples the quality is amazing!, Regards

[filfoster 1]

I hope a copy will come to market, offered as a copy instead of a real one.

[waldo 0]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Bayrische-Medaille-Luitpold-Prinz-Regent-zur-Erinnerung-an-den-8-Dez-1889/383550417170?hash=item594d62e912:g:pY4AAOSwR-tewXOp

 

[Schießplatzmeister 3]

Hello Waldo,

Thank you for providing the link to this cast forgery.  The quality of this forgery is good.  For years, many collectors were deceived by these finely-cast pieces.  I hope that members here study it, so that they avoid this type of counterfeit.  It should also be noted that this isn't the only medal forgery like this.  Many other types of medal forgeries have been made like this.  They are sometimes still described as "original" pieces.

Best regards, 

[ccj 4]

Very informative thread and answers questions I had but never asked.