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23 hours ago, paul wood said:

Byrds was definitely a black widow according to Gale Hawkes and George Harris and his was a WW1 award. In WW2 he was busy molesting penguins.

Paul

Alight,  I didn't know that. Still not to old to learn.

But we agree upon the fact that it's a NC and not a DSC........

 

Regards

Herman 

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On 28/09/2019 at 15:51, paul wood said:

Less disinformation in those days.

Being in the numismatic trade (ie  coins and medals). People ask advice as to the value of certain items. After giving my considered opinion I often get the reply "but on the internet it says....." i then reply "do you believe every word you read in the Bible" to which the reply is "Of course not: do you think I am stupid?". My reply is "yes If you believe everything you read on-line". I think there is more likely to be accurate information in the Bible than a lot of the rubbish printed on-line. These days it seems that if the internet says it is true it has to be. We are more gullible today than the most supersticious of medieval  peasants. My few pennies worth of thoughts.

Paul

Words that should be carved on white marble, then filled with 24kt. gold...

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On 28/09/2019 at 11:32, paul wood said:

Byrds was definitely a black widow according to Gale Hawkes and George Harris and his was a WW1 award. In WW2 he was busy molesting penguins.

Paul

In fairness to Muckaroon1960, the US Navy Naval History and Heritage Command state on their Navy Cross webpage that

"The Navy Cross was established by an act of Congress (Public Law 253) on 4 February 1919"

and, further down on the page (as a caption to a photo of one),

"One variation picked up the informal nickname "Black Widow" and was in use about 1941-1942, in which the medal itself and its wrap broach were over-anodized for a very dark, gunmetal finish."

On 28/09/2019 at 11:32, paul wood said:

Byrds was definitely a black widow according to Gale Hawkes and George Harris and his was a WW1 award.

Is it possible that Messrs Hawkes and Harris were wrong, I wonder?

Link: https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/heritage/awards/decorations/navy-cross2.html

Edited by Trooper_D
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No I suspect he lost his original down a penguin's gullet or his faithful husky Igloo  devoured it during the 1940 expidition. Thus an official replacement. It was definitely like the black widow illustrated and while I may be far from perfect. Those who know me well and my work colleagues will confirm that I have an elephantine memory.  By the buy the sale which took place on US Election day 1990. Had the illustration of Group captain Peter Townsend scrambling during the battle of Britain. The inside cover has Igloo being somewhat amorous with Byrd's trouserleg.

 

Paul 

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1 hour ago, paul wood said:

No I suspect he lost his original down a penguin's gullet or his faithful husky Igloo  devoured it during the 1940 expidition. Thus an official replacement. It was definitely like the black widow illustrated ...

Your supposition seems right, Paul. He was awarded his Navy Cross (and promotion to Rear Admiral) for his flight to the South Pole on November 28, 1929. So, if a Black Widow was sold at Sotheby's in Byrd's name, it can only have been a replacement (or duplicate).

Post #4 at the link below, purports to show Byrd's medals (including the Tiffany gold MoH) at the November 10th 1988 sale. It certainly is a very dark colour!

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/263472-important-military-estate-auctions/

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Those are Byrd's medals. As you can clearly see it is a black widow. You are right it was the 1988 ele tion following the retirement of the less smarter actor in bedtime for  Bonzo (I believe Bonzo was the intended nominee for the 1980 election but was sidestepped due to a heavy 5oclock shadow which cost Nixon dear in 1960)

Paul

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