Anyway to Identify this Ribbon Bar?

[ostprussenmann_new]

Royal Artillery (WWI and WWII) Vet

I am looking to see if someone can put a name to this ribbon bar...

 

Royal Artillery Colonel from WWII who was Great War Veteran

1) Military Cross w/ Rosette (2x)

2) 1914 Mons Star w/ Rosette (not 1914-1915 Mons Star)

3) British War Medal (WWI)

4) WWI Victory Medal 

5) 1945 Defense Medal

6) War Medal 1939-1945

7) Efficiency Medal 

Thanks for any help.  Any additional information would be welcomed.

[ostprussenmann_new]

This tag was found in the tunic:  assuming service number

[Wessel Gordon]

First things first:

Whoever he is he is wearing the World War 1 Victory Medal which seems to be US medal. He is wearing the War Medal 1939-1945 and the Defense Medal which was both instituted when World War 2 was all intent and purpose well and truly over. So from that we know he survived both World Wars. Why isn't he wearing the World War 2 Victory Medal like he obviously does with the World War 1 medal?

I'm going to make an uneducated assumption so if I'm wrong, gentleman, please correct me: during World War I he was ''on loan'' to the Americans for a specific period or task which entitled him to wear the World War 1 Victory Medal. ALL the medals displayed on this bar is British so I'm working on the assumption he was a Brit. As the original poster stated by World War II he is a colonel so he might be working at the British High Command or somewhere where he does not get transferred or come into contact with his US counterparts which explains the lack of the World War 2 Victory Medal.

 

 

[Mike McLellan]

Quite an impressive ribbon. That number will be critical in either finding your man, or confirming his identity once you narrow your search down by slogging through the archives at Kew. The number itself is a bit of a puzzle. Is it 1090 ? Or 16905 or...? I think it’s traceable, but it’ll take some detective work. Start with the London Gazette Archives. Good luck!  
Mike 

By the way, Wessel, the Victory Medal was not an American medal exclusively.

 

[Wessel Gordon]

Mike,

I know the WW2 Victory Medal wasn't exclusively American but as I said I just find it weird that he wore a WW1 Victory Medal plus a couple of medals dated at the end of WW2 but not the WW2 Victory Medal. I figure if he was proud enough to have survived 2 World Wars he would have worn both Victory Medals. 

 

[Mike McLellan]

Wessel, the WW I Victory medal was a multi-national medal which is discussed at great length in its own section of this site. The WW II victory medal, however,  was a US medal, and would not be worn on the uniform shown above. There’s no reason to suppose that the Colonel was attached to any American Outfit. 
Mike. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Mike McLellan

[Wessel Gordon]

In that case I rest my case.

[peter monahan]

The bar to the MC - double winner - may narrow it down a bit.  The second rosette simply indicates that the ribbon it is on is for the 1914 Star, not the 1914-15.  The Territorial Medal suggests that he 'stayed involved' between the Wars, so a secondment to a staff position for en elderly officer who may not have finished the Second War [ hence no WWII Victory?] seems reasonable.

BTW, officers were not given service numbers before 1920.  And I think an officer's serial should be 6 digits, not 5 [and 8 for ORs].

 

 

[Gunner 1]

Peter monohan wrote: "BTW, officers were not given service numbers before 1920.  And I think an officer's serial should be 6 digits, not 5 [and 8 for ORs]."

Actually officers serial numbers after 1920 ('P' numbers) went from single digit to six digits. 'P1' was the serial number of EC Lloyd.

[peter monahan]

On 14/11/2019 at 23:49, Gunner 1 said:

Actually officers serial numbers after 1920 ('P' numbers) went from single digit to six digits. 'P1' was the serial number of EC Lloyd.

Thank you, Gunner!  I looked that up but clearly not in the correct place.   My [very limited] expertise is with Canadian Great War records, when officers did not have numbers at all, and the 19th century British system [ditto].  I suspected British officers must have gotten the serials between the wars but didn't double check my source.  My bad.

Peter

[ostprussenmann_new]

On 14/11/2019 at 22:49, Gunner 1 said:

Peter monohan wrote: "BTW, officers were not given service numbers before 1920.  And I think an officer's serial should be 6 digits, not 5 [and 8 for ORs]."

Actually officers serial numbers after 1920 ('P' numbers) went from single digit to six digits. 'P1' was the serial number of EC Lloyd.

I appreciate everyone’s responses.  Then what is that number?  I looked over the tunic more and brought it to a recent show  and there was no belief that anything was fake.

I also asked about the holes in the collar next to the exploding bomb and it was explained he could have been in another unit before going to royal artillery.  The ribbons bars have been there a while because I cut stitching on the middle of the ribbon bar and there is discoloration.

the two options given to me this past weekend 1) was that it was put together in the 60s-80 or 2) it is perfectly legit.  Too bad there is no name in it.  No one could explain the number but it was put in a place in the inner pocket just as the Germans put there’s and could be an identification number.

i am lost.  I guess I need to try to look at some rolls of post 1945 or retired officers with that medal rack and try to tie a few options as previously mentioned.

 

i have another nice grouping for an MBE winner who went from private to Captain.  Started in the royal artillery and won a M.M. As a private in WWI and in 1946 was give an MBE.

at this point what a shame because it is a really nice uniform.

[Mike McLellan]

I’m sure you’ve already considered this, but the Efficiency Medal was for non-commissioned officers. That might narrow the field just a bit. I’m still hung up on that number. It certainly identifies some person, group, or thing. 
Mike. 

[SillyOldGrandad]

What seems a bit odd to me is that the button in the image bears the post-1953 Queen's Crown. As an Old Contemptible he would be around 60 years old by then.  Pete.

[ostprussenmann_new]

2 hours ago, SillyOldGrandad said:

What seems a bit odd to me is that the button in the image bears the post-1953 Queen's Crown. As an Old Contemptible he would be around 60 years old by then.  Pete.

I have another grouping where a Captain who was awarded a medal was 50 years old when awarded the medal and there is documentation to support the statement.  I think age might be a smaller thing.  Compared to the US forces; I have seen brits having weird ages for ranks in some capacities.  Right now at my job there is a 51 year old RN Commander serving in a LNO job.  He was just promoted last year and has been in for 35 years.

[Gunner 1]

Mike McLellan wrote: "I’m sure you’ve already considered this, but the Efficiency Medal was for non-commissioned officers. That might narrow the field just a bit. I’m still hung up on that number. It certainly identifies some person, group, or thing."

I am sorry, but your statement is not correct. The EM required that one had to initially be an other rank to obtain the medal, but thousands of former other ranks who were commissioned during WWII (including many officers with Regular Army Emergency Commissions) received the EM.  One only needs to look at supplements to the London Gazette during the late 1940s and early 1950s to find long lists of officers receiving the EM.  The list below is from the 25 June 1954 London Gazette and is just a portion of a list of officers who were awarded the EM on that date.

[Mike McLellan]

What?  Me?  Incorrect??

Well, that’s the first time that’s ever happened. How humiliating. I’ll try to do better. 
Mike.