jonv Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Some of the WW1-era generals, i.e. Haeseler and Plessen, were born early enough to have taken part in the German-Danish War of 1864. Does anyone know of a listing of German participants during this conflict? Or ... is there a way to determine participation status by their medals/orders? For 1864, I believe (?) there was a Verdienst-Kreuz and also a commemorative Denk-Muenze ... but is it possible to identify these (or others) in the individual's list of medals? Thanks and Merry Christmas from Denver Jon V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Hi Jon, some medals which were awarded for the war from 1864 Düppler - Sturkreuz Alsenkreuz Kriegsdenkmünze 186 Centenarmdedaille I mean, that you can find some names from officers from 1866 and 1871, who were used again in the 1 WW in the Ehrenrangliste des ehemaligen deutschen Heeres from 1914 - 1918. Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Jon, the basic problem is, that campaign medals were not listed in the Prussian army Ranglisten. This would include those issued for 1864, 1866, 1870-71, China and German South West Africa. Additionally commemorative medals such as the 1897 and jubilee medals are also not listed. The Deutsche Ordens-Almanach can throw some light on these awards (assuming the recipient paid to have all his awards listed). Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, jonv said: Does anyone know of a listing of German participants during this conflict? Or ... is there a way to determine participation status by their medals/orders? For 1864, I believe (?) there was a Verdienst-Kreuz and also a commemorative Denk-Muenze ... but is it possible to identify these (or others) in the individual's list of medals? There exist some lists of persons, who got decorations for this war, sorted by units in the archive Geheimes Staatsarchiv Preußischer Kulturbesitz. But I do not know, if these are conserved completely for all decorations and all units over the years. Edited December 22, 2019 by Komtur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utgardloki Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Very interesting That bar is beautiful. It is a NCO/enlisted bar, am I right? The Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2.Klasse was the equivalent to the Iron Cross 2nd class in wars were there was no EK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Thanks, fellows, for the quick response! ... sort of good news - bad news. I'm wondering, Glenn, if since the Ranglisten do not show campaign medals, are there other clues pointing toward the soldier having been engaged in war? I mean, I may just have to be satisfied with confirming the individual's active duty status in 1864 ((for example, I found both SekLt Hans von Plessen and PremLt Graf von Haeseler)) ... but I thought, certainly Prussia would somehow officially recognize a combat veteran in the RL. currently thumbing through Militaer-Wochenblatt items but wow, so tedious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Hi Jon, it can be a bit hit and miss. Regimental histories often contain the "Kriegsrangliste" of the regiment detailing the participating officers and usually if a regiment has an "Offizier-Stammliste" that will also usually mention participation during a conflict. However, with regard to one of your examples above, Hans von Plessen; although he was an active officer at the time of the 1864 campaign, he did not see combat. Although his Wikipedia entry would leave one to believe "he participated" in the 1864 war against Denmark, he was actually serving with the replacement battalion of Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 4 in the Rhineland during that campaign. Consequently you will not find a "Kriegsdenkmünze" for 1864 on any of his portraits. As an aside, the Bavarians are much more accommodating; they listed just about everything in their Militär-Handbuch. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Jon, I mentioned the Deutsche Ordens-Almanach. Both the 1904/05 and 1908/09 are available on line. See here: https://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/eb/2013/0153/ https://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/eb/2013/0152/ Here is General von Plessen's entry from 1908/1909. His campaign medals for 1866 and 1870-71 are highlighted. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Glenn -- these are nice references, so thanks! Cases such as Plessen stumps me ... as you point out, an active duty soldier will not necessarily be engaged in a conflict more limited in scope. But ... his career does span back to that time frame. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spolei Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Hello, here a medal of the Danish army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Wow, Glenn - the Deutsche Ordens-Almanachs are great, although maybe a bit unwieldy. I'm assuming they are very authoritative, or have you noticed errors? Example1: the two Guenthers Etzel and Pappritz are both confirmed in the Rangliste as Ostasiatisches Expeditionskorps veterans, but neither is credited with China-Denkmuenze DChM in 1904 / 1908. Example2: Max v Prittwitz u Gaffron is credited with DChM in 1908, but I can't find evidence he ever went to Asia. My question is if I assume the Almanach is correct or does my cross-referencing with the RLs demonstrate errors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 The DOA was a private vanity project, sort of like Who's Who, but Germany also had Who's Who (called Wer ist's) with brief bios. As Glenn mentioned, you paid for your entry and you self-reported your decorations. People often omitted lower awards, especially jubilee medals and sometimes campaign medals. Etzel and Pappritz are among several dozen officers who did not include their China Medals in their entries. On the flip side, the DOA entries also often fail to distinguish between the campaign medals for combatants and those for non-combatants. So Prittwitz is one of many whose China Medal in Steel is simply listed as a China Medal. You can find the 1912 edition of Wer ist's here: https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_LdsfAQAAMAAJ#page/n7/mode/2up The 1922 edition is here, but only if you have a US internet proxy, due to copyright restrictions: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000054463744 As Glenn noted, Offizier-Stammlisten from the regiments in which someone served are among the best resources, but these are much harder to find. The vast majority are not digitized and for many regiments they simply do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 ok Dave, good information. Great info .... about Prittwitz, am I understanding correctly that he had no connection to the China campaign, that he just purchased the medal? thanks for the Wer ist's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Jon, I think Dave will not mind me answering this; No, General v. Prittwitz did not buy the medal but paid for it to be included in the Almanac. He would have been awarded the medal in steel for his involvement in support of the efforts in China, for example the provision of troops from his corps for the expedition. as Dave alluded earlier, the DOA was a vanity affair and as one had to pay by length of entry for submissions in the almanac, the more parsimonious subscribers omitted their lesser awards such as campaign and jubilee medals. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonv Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 I really enjoy using the DOA, although frustrating to understand it is not necessarily definitive ... but having to research and cross-reference is something that makes all of this so much fun. That, and having pals who can correctly use "parsimonious" in a sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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