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Chris Boonzaier

World's best Feldgrau tunic?

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Ahhh... OK... I can confirm that last thought...

I have an original copy of the Bavarian Officers Bekleidungs-vorschrift fom 1904... it describes when and where the Achselbänder and Achselschnure should be worn by Bavarian adjutants... with the field uniform only on official duties and parades, otherwise the Adjutant may wear the Achselbänder on his own initiative.

So they must have spent more time without it than with it, especially in Flanders, and to identify his station the shoulder boards would have been a must?

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29 minutes ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Ahhh... OK... I can confirm that last thought...

I have an original copy of the Bavarian Officers Bekleidungs-vorschrift fom 1904... it describes when and where the Achselbänder and Achselschnure should be worn by Bavarian adjutants... with the field uniform only on official duties and parades, otherwise the Adjutant may wear the Achselbänder on his own initiative.

So they must have spent more time without it than with it, especially in Flanders, and to identify his station the shoulder boards would have been a must?

Possible, and that last bit may explain the missing button: but it seems to me that it is not fact, but merely a guess (however educated it may be).

I'll dig through my pics in the coming days and see if I can find any of Rupprecht and his staff (plenty of Rupprecht, not sure about his staff, though). Can you post a pic of where the button used to be? And does the tunic have any tailor label (no name tag, that is clear, but perhaps a tailor label)?

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38 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

Possible, and that last bit may explain the missing button: but it seems to me that it is not fact, but merely a guess (however educated it may be).

I'll dig through my pics in the coming days and see if I can find any of Rupprecht and his staff (plenty of Rupprecht, not sure about his staff, though). Can you post a pic of where the button used to be? And does the tunic have any tailor label (no name tag, that is clear, but perhaps a tailor label)?

Hi, will dig the camera out and get a pic tomorrow. I am guessing the main reason the button was removed was that malsen left the KP in June 1915 and transferred back to the Leibregiment

There are few pics of the staff from what I can see... the most likely one to see him is with a digital library and they want EUR40 for a scan... on the off chance he is in the pic...

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Ok, I've gone through my pictures. Based on that review, aguilettes/Fangschnure were worn on official duties, as you say, sashes were also occasionally worn but were less common.

I did find the two pics shown that were part of a larger set (once in my collection, but now sold) taken on the occasion of a visit of crown prince Wilhelm and Archduke Albrecht to Rupprecht's headquarters.

Could the man on the right, in the literka, be von Malsen? Did von Malsen have a Johanniter order (not too common for Bavarian officers)?

Originalbilder (181).jpg

Originalbilder (182).jpg

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Hi, ooohhh... that would have been fantastic.... but he did not have a Johanniter, just enough to fill a 4-5 ribbon bar.

What date was the visit? Malsen left in May-June 1915

I read the Prinz Adalbert of Bavaria Autobiography from front to end... admittedly some time ago... but seem to remember him having a Bürsche, but not a Personal Adjutant... I wonder if they were limited to people directly in line to the throne... i.e. only Rupprecht?

I must check my notes when I get back home. hopefully this weekend will be quiet.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Hi, ooohhh... that would have been fantastic.... but he did not have a Johanniter, just enough to fill a 4-5 ribbon bar.

What date was the visit? Malsen left in May-June 1915

I read the Prinz Adalbert of Bavaria Autobiography from front to end... admittedly some time ago... but seem to remember him having a Bürsche, but not a Personal Adjutant... I wonder if they were limited to people directly in line to the throne... i.e. only Rupprecht?

I must check my notes when I get back home. hopefully this weekend will be quiet.

The pic dates from after the introduction of the Bavarian Borte in March 1916.

The 1916 Militär Handbuch (which reflects changes up to those announced in attachment 4 to  Verordnungsblatt 18 of 1916) still has Malsen down as adjudant to Prinz Rupprecht. 

Malsen's decorations published in the 1916 Militär Hanbuch are given below (click on the .tiff file and it will open).

It is not so clear to me that the Handbuch listed awards of the (Prussian) Johanitter order (I could not find it listed among the abbreviation lists at the outset of the Handbuch).  

Neither could I find "AFK" (which may stand for "Anhalt Friedrich Kreuz", but then placement would be odd, after the Jubileumsmedaille and before the DAK). As per the date of the Handbuch, based on the listing, Malsen had no EKI or similar Steckkreuz type awards.

I should have the Militär Handbücher for 1917 and 1918, and will look for those later as time permits. 

Unknown.jpeg

 

1916.pdf (BEVEILIGD).tiff

Edited by GdC26

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Hi,

A Johanniter Is not listed in his Stammbuch. By 1915-16 the relations with Romania had soured to a degree that he would probably have dropped the Rn from the bar 😉

I will write some thoughts to that later but although he was only officially no longer Personal Adj from June 1916, he had by that time already spent a year back at his old regiment.

As far as I can see, a prince only had one personal Adj. in this time Rupprecht seems to have done without.

Supposition of course, but I assume a Personal Adj to an Armee Commander was a wasted space. In peace time, sure, but not later?.Rupprecht commanded the 6. A.O.K., had a large staff doing his every wish... and Malzen was a newly promoted Major with no Staff training, no higher Military education and had only ever commanded a Company.... Personally I would have felt out of place and I assume many of his tasks had been taken over by others because he seems to have rejoined Rupprecht 3 months after the start of the war, by which time his tasks would have been redistributed.

I do not think i am wrong in assuming that at the outbreak of the war there was no position for him... the Leib Regiment had far too many officers, Malsen was a major with only company level experience... The Crown Prince had a Full military staff of highly trained officers.... it seems almost like a personal favor to bring him under Rupprechts wing at the 6. A.O.K. ... and in Rupprechts diary he voices his frustration in may 1915 at loosing his beloved chief of staff Krafft von Dellmensingen who was ordered away to form the Alpenkorps... basically at the same time Malsen received his orders to follow von Kraft and rejoin the Leib Regiment, to take over a battalion! (Although there were officers with more combat experience in the regiment who could have done it) ... I wonder if the posting was a favor influenced by Rupprecht? Seems very likely...

 

Man, this is great.... long discussions like this have become a rarity on forums these days 🙂

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All you say makes sense, so the man in the pic may not be von Malsen. but either way: if von Malsen was connected to Dutch nobility (as a quick websearsch seemed to suggest), then a protestant connection may exist and a Johanniter would not be out of the question.

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Posted (edited)

I've had a quick look at the 1918 Rangliste (not: Militär Handbuch), but could not find our man there.

 

Edited by GdC26

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Hi,

 

he is listed as Cath. I think in Bavaria it was a prerequisite 🙂

I have a small but nice selection of Pics of Willy 2 with his staff, unlike Rupprecht he seems to have loved medal parades and decorating the troops... I must check and see who is wearing tinsel, with a bit of luck we can see the attributes from different stages of the war. Do you have a pic of Willy's adjutant for comparison?

30 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

I've had a quick look at the 1918 Rangliste (not: Militär Handbuch), but could not find our man there.

 

Hi, he was released from active service in 1917 with the status "a la suite " to the army, and the right to wear his old uniform

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Posted (edited)

Sure, I’ll dig for Willy & his friends and relationship later tonight.

Edited by GdC26

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"Front" visit of King Ludwig III, with several adjutants wearing aguilettes in tow. Let me know if this is the type of pic you are looking for.

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Posted (edited)

Willy, of course, went all the way, and usually brought his own herald and standard bearer (presumably, because no one else would do it for him .....).

I have more, but for some reason am unable to post them at the moment.

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (142).jpg

Edited by GdC26

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looks like big willy had a navy guy with him?

he also just attached his from his top shoulder board button!

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13 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

looks like big willy had a navy guy with him?

he also just attached his from his top shoulder board button!

Navy on this occasion, army on others - he had a host of adjutants. I had difficulty posting further pics last night - will try again now.

 

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (145).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (267).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (384).jpg

Edited by GdC26

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7 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Navy on this occasion, army on others - he had a host of adjutants. I had difficulty posting further pics last night - will try again now.

 

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (145).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (267).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (384).jpg

 

Edited by GdC26

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Side question:

Is he wearing the Kleindekoration des Schwarzen Adlerordens? (rarely seen) 

Also very interesting how he is wearing the trifolds under his ribbon bar

image.png.8828b32ca3e20fbb936dee594bea7727.png

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2 hours ago, Utgardloki said:

Side question:

Is he wearing the Kleindekoration des Schwarzen Adlerordens? (rarely seen) 

Also very interesting how he is wearing the trifolds under his ribbon bar

image.png.8828b32ca3e20fbb936dee594bea7727.png

Possibly, although the pic is too blurry to be certain. Wilhelm is wearing Austrian (Oberst Inhaber) uniform, and the tree folds are most likely Austrian (the second decoration from the left appears to be the Kleindekoration for the GC of the St. Stephansorden. 

Some more pictures to follow over the weekend as time permits.

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17 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Navy on this occasion, army on others - he had a host of adjutants. I had difficulty posting further pics last night - will try again now.

 

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (145).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (267).jpg

Fotos & Postkarten Wilhelm II (384).jpg

The clarion and the standard bearer belonged to the Leibgendarmerie 1 Zug . always Wilhelm was accompanied by Leibgendarmen 

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6 hours ago, Bayern said:

The clarion and the standard bearer belonged to the Leibgendarmerie 1 Zug . always Wilhelm was accompanied by Leibgendarmen 

Correct. More pics below, 4 more for Willi, 4 for Bavaria, 4 for Saxony, 4 schowing Schärpen in wear 93x Prussia, 1 x Saxony). I have several pics from Württemberg, but none of them show aguilettes/Fangschnure or Schärpen in wear during ceremonies. Same for Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Baden. If any has pics of adjutants of those states, please feel free to share.

The Prinz Alfons pic is postwar, but it is a nice illustration of the Schärpe in wear.

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Edited by GdC26

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Here is little willy... I am guessing that as an armee commander he had a large staff and a personal Adjutant may not have been necessary? With little willy noone is wearing tinsel... with the Herzog of Braunschweig there is no tinsel either....

 

 

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But the pics I posted earlier today show plenty, and not just for Willi.

 

Edited by GdC26

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15 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

But the pics I posted earlier today show plenty, and not just for Willi.

 

I agree... Big Willi's Flugel Adjutant has it on quite often, which makes a comparison with little Willi interesting... the tinsel is not to be seen... or out of camera...

It makes it more plausible to me that the Kings/Kaiser were still big on ceremony and tradition, whereas the Crown Princes were soldiers, commanding armies, with less time and interest for such finery... the 2 pics I found of Rupprecht's staff show a very "dressed for work" bunch, none of the shiny entourage that followed the Kaiser and Bavarian king.

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It appears both emperor and king have entourage wear their adjutant aiguillette all time. However, it doesn’t seem to common otherwise. 
 

great thread

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