Unknown Hauptmann Waffenrock for GGR2

[dwmosher]

 

 Wie Gehts:

 

I was wondering if the original owner of this unnamed tunic could be identified with limited information presented here.  This is the M1910 waffenrock for a hauptmann with  GGR2.  First, I noticed that the tunic was used in the field (wear and well tailored repairs at the bottom of the skirt) and he has an EK2, but no EK1.  Although he did have a breast badge, the dimensions for the loops are much longer/wider than any EK1.   He did also have a fairly extensive ribbon bar (I presume 6 awards) for no EK1,  which I presume were pre-war awards. So, was this chap killed early in the war, or was he possibly detailed as a staff officer early in the war and couldn't earn the EK1.

 

From what I gather from rank lists, here are two possibilities:

 

Haupt v. Hagen, who ended the war as a Oberstlt aD.  He was promoted to hauptmann in 1905, so he had been around to gather some awards and was sent to the  Adjutant Generals Command of the XXI AR in January 1914.  His awards included the EK2 (presumably), Roter Adler-Order 4. Kl, Koniglicher Kronen-Orden 4. Kl, Johanniterorden - Ehrenritter, Belgische Leopold Orden - Ritterkreuz, Osterreich Orden der Eisernen Krone 3. Kl, Osterreich Franz Joseph Orden - Offizierkreuz

 

Haupt v. Dertzen, who died on 8/21/1914. He was promoted to hauptmann in 1908.  His awards included the EK2 (presumably), Verdienstorden Philipps des Grossmutigen - Ritterkreuz 2. Kl, Osterreich Orden der Eisen Krone 3. Kl, Osterreich Franz Joseph Orden - Ritterkreuz

 

I am sure there are other candidates, but these seemed the most logical. Also, these are the awards provided in the 1914 Rang-Liste, so there may be additional awards I don't have.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

 

[KIR]

50 minutes ago, dwmosher said:

....

Haupt v. Dertzen, who died on 8/21/1914. He was promoted to hauptmann in 1908.  His awards included the EK2 (presumably), Verdienstorden Philipps des Grossmutigen - Ritterkreuz 2. Kl, Osterreich Orden der Eisen Krone 3. Kl, Osterreich Franz Joseph Orden - Ritterkreuz ....

Hi Dave,
I think it's "v. Oertzen" (not v. Dertzen); Joachim v. Oertzen: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/111477
Best regards,
Jens

p.s.: very nice tunic - thx for showing!!!

Edited January 3, 2020 by KIR

[laurentius]

Dear dwmosher,

when looking at the loops of your splendid tunic I would think that there once was a EK1, not just any EK1, but a lovely Kurassiers-version with fangs on the horizontal arms. This would explain the four loops, I cannot think of any other decoration that could be placed here.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[dwmosher]

Jens,

Thanks for the correction on v. Oertzen's name. 

Laurentius,

I am posting a picture of the tunic with an EK1 suspended only from the top loop.  You can see the outside edges of the cross are actually inside the four loops!.  I know that v. Hagen was awarded the Offizierkreuz for the Franz Joseph Orden, but I have never seen hooks to the side for this award.

[Dave Danner]

Hellmuth v. Hagen, * 26.6.1869 in Beßwitz, Pommern, † 10.12.1934 in Berlin-Lichterfelde, took command of II./RIR 202 in 1914. In addition to the decorations listed in the original post, he had the Centenary Medal, the 1908 Austrian Inhaber-Jubiläumsmedaille, the Austro-Hungarian Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration 3. Klasse, and as a decorated battalion commander presumably the EK1 and at minimum the EK2.

Joachim v. Oertzen also had the Centenary Medal and the 1908 Austrian Inhaber-Jubiläumsmedaille. Since be was killed so early in the war, we can't say for certain if he had the EK2, but it is a possibility.

[dwmosher]

Thanks, Dave. 

Another potential candidate is Haupt. Bock v. Wulfingen.  Promoted to hauptmann in 1910.  Awards included Austrian Franz Joseph Orden- Ritterkreuz,.  Killed on 11/17/1914 with RIR 15. 

Any idea what the breast badge could be on the tunic?

[Chris Boonzaier]

That tunic is a beauty.

[laurentius]

If the owner of this tunic died during the war we could rule out some big, unofficial Freikorps-award. Consider the size it would be to me most likely to be an Franz Joseph-orden Offizierskreuz with fangs on the horizontal ar

[ccj]

Nice tunic-

I've never seen a Franz Joseph Order Officers Cross with Fangs. However, I haven’t seen everything so they probably exist. 
 

Were there any Royals assigned to the Regt with this ranks?

[laurentius]

Ccj might have a point here. It is not unlikely that some type of royal served in this regiment. This would also explain the size and the number of the loops. Breaststars with fangs are much more common than regular 'Steckkreuze'. Perhaps someone from the Hohenzollern family, or one of the other ruling houses of Germany might have owned the tunic. This thread is getting more interesting by the minute

[Dave Danner]

No royals that I know of. 

Other breast devices worn by known GGR 2 officers I can think of, but again I don't know if any had fangs: (1) the Steckkreuz of the Johanniterorden; (2) the Erinnerungszeichen zur silbernen Hochzeit. 

Hasso v. Besser had the Erinnerungszeichen zur silbernen Hochzeit, He left service as an Oberleutnant a.D. in 1909 and was recalled on 5.8.1914 with V./LIR 76. On 1.11.1914, he was promoted to Hauptmann a.D., while commanded to LIR 56. He received the EK2 on 31.10.1914 and the  MMV2 on 26.11.1914. As of May 1917, these were his only wartime awards. He might have received the EK1 after that point though. His prewar awards were the Centenary, ÖFJ4 and both the 1899 and 1908 Austrian Inhaber-Jubiläumsmedaillen (ÖIJM).

There are a bunch of officers with the Johanniterorden.  I am not sure how many you could narrow down, other than those with way too many prewar awards for the ribbon bar loops. One possibility is Joachim v. Goertzke. He was wounded and taken prisoner in September 1914, and the EK2 is the only known war decoration I have for him. Like Besser, his prewar awards were the Centenary, the ÖFJ4 and the two ÖIJMs.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Were officers of the unit sent to other units upon mobilisation? I have a photo of Bavarian Leib Regiment officers in Leiber uniform, serving in the 1st Bavarian Reserve Inf Regt (for instance)

[dwmosher]

Thank you all for your responses. 

Chris,

Three of the four GGR2 hauptmanns killed in 1914 had been transferred to RIR 15.

v. Wedemeyer 8/23/14 at Gozee

v. Kathen 11/17/14 at Apern

Bock v. Wulfingen  11/17/14 at Apern

[Dave Danner]

Ten officers and eight senior NCOs came from GGR 2 to RIR 15 on mobilization:

Hptm. Kurt Frhr. v. Forstner, Chef 2./RIR 15, Kdr. I./RIR 15
Hptm. Heinrich v. Kathen, Chef 8./RIR 15
Hptm. Adolf v. Wedemeyer, Chef 6./RIR 15
Hptm. Julius Bock v. Wülfingen, Chef 3./RIR 15
Hptm.d.R. Georg-Henning v. Puttkamer, Chef 9./RIR 15
OLt. Erich v. Michaëlis, Chef 11./RIR 15
OLt. Kurt v. Briesen, Rgts.Adj. RIR 15
Lt. Kurt Bock v. Wülfingen, Adj. I./RIR 15, Rgts.Adj. RIR 15
Lt. Wilhelm Frhr. v. Wrangel, Adj. II./RIR 15
Lt.d.R. Wilhelm Wengeler, 6./RIR 15
Feldw. Knoch, Kastner, Siemer, Bergte, Watermann, Striehse, Hermges, Reschke

RIR 15 also received officers from the reserve of IR 15 and IR 55 and from the Infanterie-Schießschule in Wünstorf, and a number of NCOs from GGR 4, as well as some Landwehr officers from the local recruiting area in Westphalia. The enlisted soldiers were mainly reservists called up from the IR 15 recruiting area. It seems a bit unusual for a "regular" reserve regiment to receive so much of its cadre from a Garde regiment.

Other GGR 2 officers went to RIR 202 and to the 2.Garde-Ersatz-Regiment.