Belgian Victory Medals

[lambert]

Hello Lambert,

Does the vic you posted in # 5 & 6 have any edge markings? The larger ball suspender is characteristic of French manufacture. I would expect to see the word 'BRONZE' and/or a mintmark on the edge.

Is this the case?

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob.

# 4 The medal has no marks, details very bad .. I believe it is a medal at the end of production or the cast was very worn.

I make new photos.

Medal # 5 is marked on the edge of the foot "Victory" a triangle mark, not sure if it's made in France or Belgium.

I also provide pictures that detail.

lambert

Edited August 5, 2011 by lambert

[davidw]

I think this medal must have the enamelled 1cm cross referred to above. The enamel has damage from wear. As an aside, can someone tell me what the crown signifies?

David

[speedytop]

Hi David,

http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/eng/B1-Commem.html

Uwe

[RobW]

I think this medal must have the enamelled 1cm cross referred to above. The enamel has damage from wear. As an aside, can someone tell me what the crown signifies?

David

Hello David,

The small gilt crown signifies the person was a volunteer.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

IMO (In my opinion) on post #4

The large red cross might just be a simple case of a Veteran's intervention. It may be a doctor, nurse or some caregiver who was awarded the Belgium Victory medal and just added his/her medical pin to it. We see this type of thing a lot.

Regards, Jim M.

Edited August 12, 2011 by johnnymac

[Tony]

Just come across this on UK e-bay - a mint-condition Belgian vic with original manufacturer's packaging

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item20bafc4811

May be of interest to someone.

Bill

I've seen a few of these with paper packets for sale on ebay over the last 2 months, are they that common, has a stash been found or are they pehaps not original?

I can't say I've really noticed them in the past.

Tony

[RobW]

I've seen a few of these with paper packets for sale on ebay over the last 2 months, are they that common, has a stash been found or are they pehaps not original?

I can't say I've really noticed them in the past.

Tony

Hello Tony,

There has been a recent find in Belgium of some old unissued stock from Fonson & Co. These would be the medals that are seen on ebay with the grease papered wrapper of Fonson & Co. They are difficult to find and do not turn up too often.

Regards,

Rob

[Tony]

Thanks for the reply Rob. I'll think about going for one if any turn up again.

Tony

[lambert]

Hello Lambert,

Does the vic you posted in # 5 & 6 have any edge markings? The larger ball suspender is characteristic of French manufacture. I would expect to see the word 'BRONZE' and/or a mintmark on the edge.

Is this the case?

Regards,

Rob

Hi Robw

Photos of the edge of the MV Belgium.

MV # 5. I seem to be of French manufacture. am I right?

4#

edges worn ..

5#

Mark French?

Lambert

[Tim B]

Thanks for the reply Rob. I'll think about going for one if any turn up again.

Tony

This one was listed just recently and had several bidders:

Tim

[Tim B]

MV # 5. I seem to be of French manufacture. am I right?

Mark French?

Lambert

Hi Lambert,

Yes, looks like a French maker's stamp and a partial "Bronze" stamp on the rim, commonly seen on French produced items.

I can't tell what mark is inside the triangle, could be J&B or something else. You could try to loop it or magnify it and compare to the thread in the French section on maker marks. I think you'll find that thread very informative here.

Tim

[lambert]

yes, I can try.

I have a new allied..

Lambert

Edited October 11, 2011 by lambert

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a nice Belgian mini trio with a Decoration Militaire. Interestingly the Decoration Militaire is of the Leopold II variety.

The Belgian vic is only 13.4 mm in diameter.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Hi Robw

Photos of the edge of the MV Belgium.

MV # 5. I seem to be of French manufacture. am I right?

5#

Mark French?

Lambert

Hello Lambert,

I would echo what Tim has mentioned. Yes it appears to be a French produced item, most likely by the Paris firm of Janvier-Berchot by the looks of the triangle makers mark. The BRONZE mark is seen quite often on French produced medals.

Considering the large quantity of the official strike these French produced versions are not seen all that often and are often overlooked as a standard official strike.

Regards,

Rob

[lambert]

Hi Lambert,

Yes, looks like a French maker's stamp and a partial "Bronze" stamp on the rim, commonly seen on French produced items.

I can't tell what mark is inside the triangle, could be J&B or something else. You could try to loop it or magnify it and compare to the thread in the French section on maker marks. I think you'll find that thread very informative here.

Tim

Confirmed that the mark of Manufacturer and "J & B"

Lambert

[lambert]

Hello Lambert,

I would echo what Tim has mentioned. Yes it appears to be a French produced item, most likely by the Paris firm of Janvier-Berchot by the looks of the triangle makers mark. The BRONZE mark is seen quite often on French produced medals.

Considering the large quantity of the official strike these French produced versions are not seen all that often and are often overlooked as a standard official strike.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Robw

This part is another brand BRONZE.

Lambert

[Bilco]

HI Gents,

My latest acquisition - the Belgian Unofficial Type 3 Uniface

Close-up of the obverse:

Designer's name not shown:

Close-up of reverse:

The planchet is 36.5mm diameter. I was surprised at how thin it is - 1mm at the 3 o'clock, and 2mm over the lady's sticky-out bits. Still, as it was meant to be a cheap, temporary expedient until the official one came out, I suppose it didn't need to be too thick.

In Lazlo it's included under Belgium, but am I right in thinking it was made for the French market? On this web site http://www.medailles...medailledb.html it's shown under France.

Bill

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

You are correct in your thinking that this uniface medal was produced during the gap between the releasing of the Ministerial Instruction authorising the French victory medal in 1919 and the actual production of such medal in 1922. I have seen the uniface medal in a number of French Great War groups and they are always make such groups interesting. I have such a French group in my collection. If I can dig it out I will post a picture.

I have also seen a few mounted inside picture frames; which would go some way to explaining the thinness of the medal.

Regards,

Rob

Edited January 5, 2012 by RobW

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - but what exactly is it?

Obverse:

Reverse:

The close-ups:

Obverse:

This seems to be Laslo's Unofficial Type 1 - it has the Dubois name in very shallow strike at the bottom, and the 'LA' mark inside the wreath ....

.... but it has the thick wire suspension of the Unofficial Type 1a.

Reverse:

This has the 'LA' mark at the bottom of the central wreath quite clearly.

The striking seems to show that the upper and lower parts of the die were not aligned properly - there is a lip on the edge at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, showing that the obverse part of the die was offset slightly to the left:

3 o'clock view, obverse uppermost:

9 o'clock view, obverse uppermost:

In the 6 o'clock view the off-set of the upper and lower portions is clear:

At the 9 o'clock the upper part is thicker than the lower, and the the 3 o'clock the lower is thicker. There is a change-over at the 6 o'clock, with the overhang dropping down to touch the reverse, then immediately starting again high up with the lower portion projecting. Not too visible in the photos, but clear under a glass, are the vertical striations on the edge that seem to indicate that the piece was die-struck. The planchet is 37mm diameter, and 2.2mm thick.

The thick wire suspension has a little 'pip' on top:

Reading Laslo I believe that the Czechs used the Belgian design before the Government agreed their own design and production started. Mine has what looks like a Czech-type ribbon - there are two holes a little down from the top, which makes me think that the two-pronged attachement device has been moved.

Was the Alexander Leisek-produced medal a high-quality piece, or was it a cheaply-made, quick expedient? Other photos of the Unofficial Type 1 I've seen seem to have surface flaws - the view of the obverse on mine also shows a flaw on the surface - a piece of swarf in the die?

So, what do I have? Is it a poorly-struck Leisek piece - combining features of the Unofficial Types 1 and 1a - or a cast copy made by someone who hadn't known the difference between the 1 and 1a?

All comments welcome.

Bill

Edited February 18, 2012 by Bilco

[RobW]

Hi Gents, My latest acquisition - but what exactly is it?

So, what do I have? Is it a poorly-struck Leisek piece - combining features of the Unofficial Types 1 and 1a - or a cast copy made by someone who hadn't known the difference between the 1 and 1a? All comments welcome. Bill

Hello Bill,

A nice piece. It is definitely an Alexander Leisek produced Belgian unofficial type 1. There is a large variance in the quality of these earlier Czech produced pieces with many different ribbon shades seen, and some variation in the actual suspender (ball-thick wire). The die mark-lines on the edge is not uncommon. Yours has a very good level of detail on both maker marks.

Regards,

Rob

Edited February 19, 2012 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

Further to post # 18 here is a nice pair of matching Belgian medals in their Fonson wrappers. These have been listed on an online auction site and are not seen that often.

Regards,

Rob

[lambert]

Thanks Rob.

I still do not have this Medal Mint.

Lambert

[Pagan]

Hi Rob

I have just seen two medals exactly the same with the paper included on another site.

Was there a lot of these recently uncovered??? The reason I ask is I get nervous when I start to see a lot of "hard to find" or not "often seen" medals starting to appear.

[RobW]

I have just seen two medals exactly the same with the paper included on another site.

Was there a lot of these recently uncovered??? The reason I ask is I get nervous when I start to see a lot of "hard to find" or not "often seen" medals starting to appear.

Hello Pagan,

While there has been a number of recent lots uncovered these were of the War Commemorative Medal and wrapper. I am aware of a smaller lot recently uncovered of the Belgian vic with corresponding wrappers, and they are indeed not seen that often.

It is, I suppose, a relative term. I mean it in the sense that both the War Commemorative and vic are not regularly seen in their original greased wrapper paper and if they are seen it is as a single item. Finding them listed as a pair with matching wrappers is not common considering the much larger number of plain Belgian vics that are in the market. Of course it is also dependent on the condition of the wrapper which has a habit of tearing quite easily.

I would certainly recommend any vic collector to obtain a specimen if the opportunity presents.

Regards,

Rob

Edited March 9, 2012 by RobW

[Pagan]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the info

Specimen is on its way :D