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here's something rare and seldom encountered--and especially when found with the original ribbon intact!

the deutsche trainkreuz of the Trainbund--an veteran's organization for former train troops...not a lot of information is readily available to the public...there's an article by Roland Schlag in the 78th edition of BDOS/DGfO phaleristic magazine Orden und Ehrenzeichen (page 83), but unfortunately the online version of this edition only goes to page 77....:banger:

 perhaps someone here has pages 83-85 handy?

this particular example appears to have been detached from a medal bar at some point--not sure if it was done recently or back in the mid 30's when these types of veteran 'vanity awards' were no longer allowed to be worn in public on medal bars. interestingly this award seems to have also been classified by some as a freikorps-type award

20200801_161403.thumb.jpg.01ec0f9383e971aa01ecb74230aa3f83.jpg

20200801_161424.thumb.jpg.28bd833d51b6dc80aa09e96ea3508365.jpg

 

 

Edited by Eric Stahlhut
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This is a very interesting piece. It's unfortunate that there's not much documentation on it. I'd be interested in who has classified this as possibly a Freikorps awards because I very much doubt that. All Freikorps awards have been accounted for and well documented for the most part by Konstantin Nikolaev and Ingo Haarcke in their exhaustively researched books. I believe there is some sort of Freikorps Train troops award (I'd have to look it up). But, this isn't it.

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i found a reference to this award on uwe bruckner's site (ordensmuseum.de). he has a ribbon maker's sample card collection and this award was included with the freikorps items ...it's at the bottom of his 'historische o&e' section.

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1 hour ago, Eric Stahlhut said:

i found a reference to this award on uwe bruckner's site (ordensmuseum.de). he has a ribbon maker's sample card collection and this award was included with the freikorps items ...it's at the bottom of his 'historische o&e' section.

I saw it. It also had the ribbons for the Feld Ehren-Kreuz which was an unofficial WWI commemorative and the 16er Hacketauer which was an unofficial commemorative medal for the former Imperial Infanterie-Regiment 16. Freiherr von Sparr which were called the "alter Hacketauer" in the 19th century. This regiment formed Freikorps Hacketau in 1919. But that ribbon has nothing to do with Freikorps Hacketau. So, these 2 ribbons along with the so-called "Train Band" from your cross are not related to the Freikorps. Maybe they were just lumped in with Freikorps ribbons because they were from the same post-war period.

I get why you thought that your cross might be Freikorps because of this. The other thing though is that your cross was issued in 1928 on the 75th anniversary of the founding of the Prussian Railway Troops. So, the dates don't match the usual Freikorps dates of 1919-21 that one sees on Freikorps awards.

It's still a nice piece and I should think quite hard to find especially with the original ribbon.

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Posted (edited)

yes, i agree--the date of the cross also caused me to raise doubts about the freikorps connection-- i'm i very interested in reading the article by herr schlag and also hopefully uwe b. (red eagle) will see this thread and add some insight

Edited by Eric Stahlhut
wrong uwe! sorry for any confusion, speedytop! best regards
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Hi,

I'm not Uwe B., but Uwe K., and I can add something.

There is a b/w copy of a document in my collection from 1928.

Besitzzeugnis

Der Vorstand des Deutschen Trainbundes verleiht hiemit dem Leutnant d.Res., Herrn ... ... anläßlich des 75jährigen Bestehens des Trains als Waffe am 21. April 1928 das an diesem Tage gestiftete Trainkreuz. Berlin, den 29. Mai 1928. No xxx Der Vorstand des Deutschen Trainbundes (3 signatures).

All that is correct for this cross. He procured all sorts of decorations from 1921 to 1935.

Here is the list of his documents for several decorations:

EK 2

Sa-Altenburg: Tapferkeitsmedaille

EK 1

Oberland: Gedenkmünze für Oberschlesien

Oberland: Tiroler Adler

Schlesischer Adler I. und II. Klasse (one document)

Kyffhäuser-Bund: Kriegsdenkmünze 1914/18

Bayern: Goldene Hochzeits-Erinnerungsmünze

Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen

Ehren- und Erinnerungskreuz des Marinekorps Flandern (2x)

Infanterie-Rgiment 380: Regiments-Erinnerungszeichen in Bronze

Sächsisches Kriegs-Ehrenkreuz 1914/18 I. Klasse am weißgrünen Band

Deutscher Volksorden: Deutsch-Bekenntniskreuz I. Klasse

Kreuz der sächsischen Ehrenlegion

Frontkriegerbund: Frontkreuz

Deutscher Trainbund: Trainkreuz

Bund der Verdun- und Argonnenkämpfer: Ehrenzeichen für Verdun- und Argonnen-Kämpfer (3 documents)

Österreichische Ehrenlegion: K.E.K. mit Schwertern

Deutscher Volksorden: Komturkreuz (nowhere listed)

Ehrenbund Sächsischer Weltkriegsteilnehmer: Goldenes Ehrenkreuz mit Schwertern

Sachsenbund deutscher Weltkriegsteilnehmer: Sächsisches Kriegsehrenkreuz 1914/18 Ritterkreuz I. Klasse

Bund der Somme- und Champagne-Kämpfer: Somme- und Champagne-Kreuz (2 documents)

Prinz Alfons-Erinnerungszeichen auf blauem Bande

and later

Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938

Uwe

 

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Hi Eric,

I have a problem with your comment.

The shown cross is a very rare one, and many collectors would be exited, to have such an rarity in their collection.

Uwe

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hi uwe, 

 please don't take my comment seriously--it was merely a small jest made in reference to a different thread wherein a fellow forum member stated that this term was used by certain types of veterans to describe these types of self-purchased post-war "awards". please accept my apologies and understand that my comment was not intended to offend or belittle anyone/anything. the term was not meant to be used in a pejorative way.

i agree, it's rare and i'm delighted to have found it. it hasn't been posted on the gmic before and that's why i posted it.

thanks to you we have information on it and as time passes perhaps more information about it will be added...

best! e~

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Hi Eric,

there is no problem for me. And I agree that the above mentioned officer (later SA Oberführer) collected post WWI decorations like "Karnevalsorden". The above mentioned "Deutscher Volksorden: Komturkreuz" was the rarest of all his decorations. I never saw another cross. He was a friend of "Prinz AuWi", even after they were both prisoners of war (Internierungslager).

Uwe

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On 02/08/2020 at 18:48, bolewts58 said:

The other thing though is that your cross was issued in 1928 on the 75th anniversary of the founding of the Prussian Railway Troops.

Just to be sure here... are we talking railway or "Train" Supply  troosp?

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22 hours ago, speedytop said:

 

 The above mentioned "Deutscher Volksorden: Komturkreuz" was the rarest of all his decorations. I never saw another cross.

uwe,

i would like very much to see an image of this komturkreuz. i've got two of the lower grade and like you, i've never in all my time collecting never come across such a neck order 

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Eric,

it could be the only one.

The decorations and the documents are not mine. Decades ago they had been offered to me, but unfortunalely I did not buy them (at that time to expensive for me). Therefore only b/w copies, not to compare with modern scans.

1245492910_DeutscherVolksordenDeutsch-Bekenntnis-Kreuz1.KlasseF.JPG.91af938f7d96e5f4f8aeff743208983b.JPG 

269962143_DeutscherVolksordenKomturkreuzdesDeutsch-Bekenntnis-KreuzesF.jpg.2882ee7e6848c98fa49e02fc08bc0fd2.jpg

Uwe

 

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wow, uwe!

thank you so much for sharing these images. the first one is of a second class, and it sure looks like the second one is that of a first class that has been converted for wearing at the neck. it looks like someone took a long length of ribbon (these are on the narrow side at 25mm) and added a larger ring . who knows if they actually made an official komturkreuz?

for perspective on the size of cross vs. size of ribbon, here's a shot of one of mine that has also been removed from a medal bar

20200811_094615.thumb.jpg.aca0b559b541a0610b4bbb0a4caf781c.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

to get this thread back on topic, i have added a link to an article from chris' excellent website, "the soldier's burden":

http://www.kaiserscross.com/76001/76022.html

so basically, this cross was from a veterans organization that represented troops whose task was to cover supply & logistics for support services to the front. no mean feat during ww1... 

Edited by Eric Stahlhut
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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)
On 09/08/2020 at 12:54, Eric Stahlhut said:

The above mentioned "Deutscher Volksorden: Komturkreuz" was the rarest of all his decorations. I never saw another cross.

Uwe

i would like very much to see an image of this komturkreuz. i've got two of the lower grade and like you, i've never in all my time collecting never come across such a neck order 

hi again,uwe!

 i've been meaning to write more--have you noticed that your photo depicts an "upgraded" 1st class to komturkreuz, while my example used in this thread happens to be an "upgraded" 2nd class to 1st class (swords) 

it's a curious coincidence--perhaps everyone got an upgrade at some point but unfortunately due to  unforseen circumstances, the organization ceased to function? 

Edited by Eric Stahlhut
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Hi Eric,

there are apparently no regulations that show how the Komturkreuz, 1st class and 2nd class differ.

The document for the 1st class is from June 1927, no picture of the decoration.

The preliminary document for the Komturkreuz is from October 1928: "Die Originalurkunde wird später zugestellt." The document is typewritten and the word Komturkreuz is handwritten above the crossed out word Klasse. The original signature and the stamp print are the same as on the 1st class document.

The 1st class in original size and the miniature on a chain are definitely without swords.

Uwe

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